Thread: 3 shot groups are useless!

I dont disagree about hunting accuracy. I do think people calling their rifles sub MOA on the basis of a three shot group are kidding themselves and are deliberately misleading other shooters if they sell it as so.

As for Tikka's - case in point. Ive had 4 including two 6.5x55s. None of them held zero after 5 shots and groups opened up. I tried shooting FTR with two of them and it was a dismal failure - hint - the FTR bull is quite close to MOA. And you dont have to shoot fast in FTR.

Originally Posted by Tentman

I dont disagree about hunting accuracy. I do think people calling their rifles sub MOA on the basis of a three shot group are kidding themselves and are deliberately misleading other shooters if they sell it as so.

As for Tikka's - case in point. Ive had 4 including two 6.5x55s. None of them held zero after 5 shots and groups opened up. I tried shooting FTR with two of them and it was a dismal failure - hint - the FTR bull is quite close to MOA. And you dont have to shoot fast in FTR.

Fair call, horses for courses.

I wouldn't be without mine and love it, the .4 inch group shot with the above load was worked up in 6 shots.

I have since got the same results because a very kind forum member gave me a heap of brass so I wanted to check the load using his brass and yep same result.

Thanks to @Tahr for helping me with my load and I would have shot 20 deer with no escapee's using it.

I have 3 loads that shoot the same poi so swap between them from time to time just to compare damage to animal but I am confident with all 3 loads.

Originally Posted by Tentman

I dont disagree about hunting accuracy. I do think people calling their rifles sub MOA on the basis of a three shot group are kidding themselves and are deliberately misleading other shooters if they sell it as so.

I think that's a big step to say sellers are deliberately misleading when selling "sub moa" rifles, I've sold plenty of them but have always stated 3 shots sub moa or 3 shots under .5" etc, I think at worst it's a misunderstanding about the meaning of the term sub moa and the fact that this is the term used by most rifle manufacturers when giving a "3 shot or 5 shot sub moa garuntee" it is easy to understand how most layperson's would use the same terminology.
I certainly don't feel like I've miss led anyone and if I have that was definitely not the intent, I've certainly had no complaints.
That's my 2 cents on it anyway.
As far as the true definition I can see where your coming from and I understand what your saying, I don't however believe 3 shot groups are useless, I do believe 1 x 3 shot group is no where near enough data to call a load " 3 shots sub moa" more data is needed to confirm consistent poi and group size. That's how I roll.....for hunting. I do not profess to be anymore than a novice hand loader and have no intention of becoming a competition precision shooter.
Full respect to those who do go down that rabbit hole....it's mighty deep and dark