Thread: 3 shot groups are useless!

Originally Posted by Trout

My Nissan Patrol better than a GR Corolla.

Depends what you want to use it for

Originally Posted by Trout

My Nissan Patrol better than a Corolla.

The poor old Nissan will be down the road when you win the NZDA raffle Toyota though

Gidday All

Went to the range this arvo (after spending 3 hours hunting on Friday night with the wind constantly shifting to be up our arse = no shots fired) but the weather was poor, it was pissing down,and anyone who wears glasses will appreciate how difficult it is to shoot good groups in these sorts of conditions,
I'd say the weather added 0.5 to 0.75 MOA to groups, at times I practically had to guess where to shoot.

Anyhoo here are the raw results from two of my favorite hunting rifles, 9 shots each at 100M from a very light Weatherby "varmintmaster" 22-250 and my heavy "long range" rifle - a Savage 6.5/284 (which isn't by any means actually heavy, it has one of @camowsm s Bartelin "featherweight" barrels and is about 4.3 kgs). I have Ballistis-× analysis of the initial 3 shots as well as the final 9 shots which give some interesting results. I'll post these up after dinner.



The target paper got very wet so the bullet holes are a bit squidggy!

Here are the initial 3 shot groups for each rifle.





Two pretty medioce 3 shot groups, if you were doing load development theres a fair chance you'd pass them by, the 22-250 at 1.2 MOA and the 6.6-284 at 1.3 MOA. Bear in mind that the conditions were probably adding a something approacing 0.5 MOA to the groups I think Id achieve on a decent day.

And in the 9 shot groups is written why these two rifles are favorites of mine for hunting . . . . Minimal change in group size and crucially a rock solid POI from a 3 shot group to 3 x3 shot groups placed on top of each other. Would you learn this from even a series of separate 3 shot groups?





Cheers

interesting you SEEM to be a little bit left with both rifles on any 3 consecutive shots as a group, and indeed on all 9 as a group

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

interesting you SEEM to be a little bit left with both rifles on any 3 consecutive shots as a group, and indeed on all 9 as a group

Haha yup. Either I had a bit of cant on today, or I zeroed with a bit more westerly than I thought - or vice versa!. I don't usually sweat a click or two off on a hunting rifle. But I noticed as I packed up that I'd committed the cardinal sin of dial up shooting - hadn't would the elevation off after the last time I used the rifle - hence the high zero on the 6.5-284.

probably the biggest reason I avoid dial up scopes. My foray down that path was frustrating. And short lived.

You get use to it pretty quickly

Yeah like anything you have to practice a system until it becomes second nature.
Over the years for myself Ive developed a simple is better approach that caters for 90% of the situations I find myself in.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Haha yup. Either I had a bit of cant on today, or I zeroed with a bit more westerly than I thought - or vice versa!. I don't usually sweat a click or two off on a hunting rifle. But I noticed as I packed up that I'd committed the cardinal sin of dial up shooting - hadn't would the elevation off after the last time I used the rifle - hence the high zero on the 6.5-284.

Seen too many guys do exactly that. Some even with unmarked turrets who, later, can't remember the number of clicks to return the scope to zero. Good system for those guys who always remember but not for me. It would lead to major cockups somewhere along the way.

Originally Posted by 30.06king

Seen too many guys do exactly that. Some even with unmarked turrets who, later, can't remember the number of clicks to return the scope to zero. Good system for those guys who always remember but not for me. It would lead to major cockups somewhere along the way.

Zero stop on 100 meters so can't go wrong. Walk around hunting with it on zero= 100 meters then even in the dark can feel the next raised dot = 200 meters and so on then once shot is taken wind back until it can't go any further = 100 meters again.

Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Zero stop on 100 meters so can't go wrong. Walk around hunting with it on zero= 100 meters then even in the dark can feel the next raised dot = 200 meters and so on then once shot is taken wind back until it can't go any further = 100 meters again.

I accept that your method would work fine. Still gotta remember to re zero the turret after the shot and then check the setting prior to making the next shot which sometimes is overlooked by the shooter.
IIRC on one or two of the Duley shows misses were attributed to improper checks or settings. But, when it all goes right it definitely can make for some spectacular shooting.

A broad generalisation here. I think there are two basic types. One type enjoys the technology side and tinkering. Getting absolutely everything from there equipment.

The other type sees new tech as getting in the way of their basic enjoyment and proficiency. Im definitely the second type. ill work up a load, and then use that one load for, in the case of my last rifle, for 9-10,000 shots without ever thinking I should try something else. I must admit I get very frustrated hunting with type 1. watching them play with the app, make the clicks etc. My mind is going "Just shoot the Effing thing!"

There is a balance in this, hunting is not tinkering time. My checklist with all newer guys I take hunting . . .. Who's in front and shooting first (mention rules for "readiness") Scope power to minimum, discuss rifle zero (and check its on zero if a dialup) and aiming point(s) - no behind the shoulder shots!