A friend looking at subs for 308 on fallow
Feel free to comment
Printable View
A friend looking at subs for 308 on fallow
Feel free to comment
Winchester do some
Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk
under 50 yards if he is cool cucumber who will pick his shot or let animal walk away..open country where can watch animal after the shot or a dog to track it if shot isnt ideally placed...go for it BUT be prepared to switch out for a super if everything isnt perfect.
when subs are properly placed they are great,when they are even SLIGHTLY missplaced they SUCK BIGTIME.... zero shock value its all about destroying central nervous system or double lung,like bow n arrow or nothing.
shoot a few hares first.....hare is same size give or take a deers vitals.... will tell you/him if your aim/game is up to it.
Wasn't going to post, but MD is on to it. I was using Hornady Sub-X 300BLK, but they are identical in performance to .308. Performance being piss poor unless it's a good CNS shot or you get very lucky!
This is a way out question-- 30 cal 250 A Tip projectile .Comments welcome .I have big shoulder i can take the comments
Be like a rainbow
Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk
no different...and that is what folks struggle t oget head around....if a 150grn passes right through...ANY extra weight gives you NOTHING MORE.... nothing at all,the hole is no bigger,the damage is no bigger,the penertration is already right through and out the other side so no gain there either. and you need fast enough twist to make it accurate or may as well use shotgun.
Need some more moa clicks too
Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk
The more pure the lead all things being equal the better off you are likely to be. At sub level not likely to drive the thing hard enough to create a leading problem, and with tin/antimony additives increasing the hardness the main result is the bullet alloy is less likely to deform. Same as with sub .22LR rounds, if the pill doesn't deform it will cut straight through and not create much of a wound channel.
It actually can be an effective hunting option if you can get the pill to deform/expand and cut a decent wound channel to create blood loss - relying on specific hits on an animal that might move at the wrong moment can be a little variable in terms of results. One of the biggest issues with using bullets rated for supersonic speeds even varmint types at sub velocities is getting reliability at the terminal end, not as easy as you'd think if you're running variable brews like wheel weights or scrap lead from wherever.
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-action-63970/
An old 308 subsonic thread I’ve posted a few years ago. Robert’s cast lead 151gr pills. (@shooternz)
I’ve got photos of some of the recovered bullets somewhere and I’ll post them later if I can find them. One of the best shots is in through the point of the shoulder, down the length of the animal. You will be surprised how much these pills open up and deform, that spinning deformed projectile does a lot more damage across than you might think. That’s only an option for open country though, pref with a good dog. But I haven’t lost one yet, they usually tip over right there or not too far away.
I also use them in my Tikka 308 for fallow. Neck and high shoulder shots. The high shoulder / spine / brachial plexus shot will drop them on the spot.
If you are shooting them traditional style broadside and don’t make contact with the shoulder blades / spine, you’ve got a problem. It must hit bone to work.
Also for rabbits and hares (great fun, and as per above, good for field practice).
Attachment 231887
6 MOA difference between full power and subsonic at 50m. I typed that from memory and it might be incorrect but it sounds about right. I’ve put tiny blue and red dots on my scope elevation dial and just go from one to the other when hunting. Simple, effective.
The BLR wears an Aimpoint red dot now which is bloody great with subs. It’s strictly a 50 meter gun and the whole point is getting as close as you can.
The cast lead projectiles are surprisingly accurate and one hole 3 shot groups at 50m are the norm. Careful measurement of the Trail Boss, no reloading shortcuts. YOU MUST CRIMP THE NECK for uniform tension and velocity.
It’s a beaut day today and the family are going to town so this thread has got me in the mood to go and play with some sonics this afternoon.
I pulled this one out of a fallow spiker shot quartering strongly towards, through the base of the neck and into the spine, deflected down and through the lungs. Found it in the cavity around the kidney iirc. DRT.
Attachment 231896
Attachment 231897
Attachment 231898
You have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL with shot placement. Bone, bone bone and CNS.
I’ve never really understood the subsonic centrefire idea on big game. Subsonic works on rabbits with a 22 but a deer is a big animal and a supersonic 308 hunting bullet will kill it pretty much anywhere in the shoulder area.
I guess people have to try stuff out.
Noise in some areas is a limiting factor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga
It’s a common response and fair enough really. Here’s some thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga;[URL="tel:1489118"
Firstly, fallow and goats aren’t big game. They’re on the small end of medium game. That’s a nitpick but relevant. We’re not talking wapiti or scrub bulls.
Fallow are - where I mostly hunt - a resource that is kinda managed in the sense that numbers are kept at a level that makes it easy to go get some when needed. Fallow is regarded as a “special occasion” meat. Because they have a far smaller home range than reds, and aren’t transient in the way reds are, you pretty much always know where to find them. (Right in the middle of the farm usually.)
Now by all means you can go shoot them with a normal full power rifle. But when you do, you’ll get one and the rest will scatter like confetti in a blizzard, and they won’t settle down for a good while, usually a couple of days. Keep doing that and they get very unhappy and soon enough, they’re gone somewhere else. That’s not an acceptable outcome.
Carcass quality is critical - these are small deer and shooting them through the shoulder with a full power hunting bullet isn’t allowed, too much waste. Most are headshot with .223 Rem or .22-250, occasionally .22WMR or Hornet.
Also, shooting them from a distance in the preferred manner also poses risks - head shooting is for good shots who know their shit. It’s a different game than normal hunting. That’s just the way it’s done on the farms and not looking to start another head shooting debate…
So, subs are used periodically, because (a) the noise doesn’t upset the herd and several deer can be shot over an afternoon in the same small area if you’re smart, (b) meat loss on torso shot animals is practically nil, (c) the lethal target area is much bigger for close range subsonics than a distant head shot, (d) it’s much more fun to hunt them if you have to stalk real close, (e) if you are hunting with a dog, your dog will love you and his hunting way more if you routinely use subs.
The last part is all about the sport. Shooting fallow on the farm with a .223 sometimes feels like controlled slaughter, oftentimes you don’t even get off the quad. Shooting them with subs is more akin to bowhunting, you’ve gotta get real close, and that’s fun, no question about it, and having a good dog alongside that isn’t copping horror levels of ear damage and getting gun shy is very rewarding. I have yet to see a good hunting dog wearing noise cancelling headphones.
It’s not for everyone, and just like bowhunting you’ve got to be spot on with your shot placement. Knowing anatomy inside out is vital. A CNS shot might not kill it outright, and you’ll need to be prepared to dispatch it quickly with the knife or a headshot at the scene.
Regarding goats, this is where subs really come into their own. In the scrub in the lower country where it isn’t as steep, it’s very hard to get a decent field of view. You’ll catch a glimpse of a goat here and there and you can hear them but you can’t see them. But you can stalk right up to them by following the bleating of the kids. Goats are stupid and it will be thousands of years before they develop the same wild self-preservation instincts as deer. They don’t rely on scent or noise to anything like the same extent, and pick the right goat first (the oldest nanny), and several of her family won’t leg it at the first shot. I can usually get three or four right there, with another couple who will almost certainly run, then come back for a look. There will be more family groups within a couple of hundred metres that haven’t been frightened off, so after a short cooldown period, you can go hunt them too.
Because I am relying on my hearing to home in on the goats, I don’t want to be concerned about repeatedly blasting my eardrums with a full power cartridge. With subsonics I can take multiple shots with zero concern about hearing protection. Even the unsuppressed BLR doesn’t worry the ears. In tight scrub or timber I really hate using full power cartridges without hearing protection, even fully suppressed, because I’ve had tinnitus in the past (looking at you, Motorhead) and I want to avoid it like the plague.
.308 calibre subs with a good suppressor are genuinely dead quiet. Increase the size of calibre and the noise increases significantly (bigger hole in the end of the suppressor). I also use .44 Rem Mag subs and its noticeably louder. Whilst the .44 has the advantage of extra weight and frontal area, the noise diminishes the stealth factor significantly, and I also don’t much like the blunt instrument that is the typical rough & ready .44 rifle (e.g. the Ruger 77/44 is like Freddie Flintstone’s club compared to the Browning BLR.)
If I could justify it, I’d love to get into the real big boys like .458 SOCOM and the like, but that’s just an expensive folly really, for the use I’d get out of it.
The end. Hope that makes sense! Subs are useful with care and a niche just like other forms of hunting.
Yip all makes sense.
