Thread: 6.5 Creedmoor

Bought some 12mm steel plates on trademe a couple of months ago, so my shooting buddy and I decided to see how it will hold up against ELD-M 140’s and ELD-X 143’s at 200m.

Short answer, Creedmoor’s 1, 12mm mild steel plate 0.






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Most centrefires will punch through mild steel at such close range, back it up a bit, 300 is better to test.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Most centrefires will punch through mild steel at such close range, back it up a bit, 300 is better to test.

Nah, bought the right plates as well. Just wanted to see what it will do to the mild steel plate. I expected some severe dimples, but going right through was a surprise.


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Originally Posted by janleroux

Nah, bought the right plates as well. Just wanted to see what it will do to the mild steel plate. I expected some severe dimples, but going right through was a surprise.


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And it has been proven time and time again that those dimples, if hit correctly by the next bullet, can turn a projectile back at the shooter. Sooner or later, someone is going to be injured shooting at mild steel plates. Good to hear that you bought plates of the correct steel grade as well.

Originally Posted by hotbarrels

And it has been proven time and time again that those dimples, if hit correctly by the next bullet, can turn a projectile back at the shooter. Sooner or later, someone is going to be injured shooting at mild steel plates. Good to hear that you bought plates of the correct steel grade as well.

At what sort of range you recon the projectiles could turn back and still be dangerous?

This is what a centerfire does to the mild steel plate. What will a .22 do it?


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@janleroux chuck those mild plates away unless you're using them at a decent distance. Dents and craters can cause some serious ricochets.
How are the AR450 plates and your hit sensors going?

Originally Posted by McNotty

@janleroux chuck those mild plates away unless you're using them at a decent distance. Dents and craters can cause some serious ricochets.
How are the AR450 plates and your hit sensors going?

Got some decent plates now (maybe a bit too big, but good for testing). Also received revised the PCB now so I am busy building a few up as we speak.


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Originally Posted by janleroux

At what sort of range you recon the projectiles could turn back and still be dangerous?

This is what a centerfire does to the mild steel plate. What will a .22 do it?


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Check out the following posts:
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ichochet-7274/
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f32/gongs-28014/

I recommend reading both posts fully as there is some good info and youtube links worth watching

I did a heap of research when setting up the long range steels for our range, and the keys for steel targets are as follows:

All steel targets should be BIS500/AR500, arranged so that the impact face is square to the shooting position, and leaning forward at the top of the target, 20deg off vertical, to ensure that the bullet splatter is directed towards the ground and minimise the chance of a ricochet.
Keep bullet speed (regardless of calibre) below 900m/sec (3,000fps) if you want to keep your BIS500/AR500 plates in good condition.
I had (but currently cannot find ....??) a very detailed report from trials done in the USA on AR500 plate damage done with various calibre and projectile design.
The conclusion was that the calibre and bullet design had little to do with the level of plate damage, it was all about speed. They discovered that a .223 with a 50gr PSP projectile traveling at over 3,200fps was more damaging to the surface of the target than the likes of a 140gr .308 doing 2,700fps. The most damage from what they tested on the day was a .22-250 with 50gr doing 3,700's fps.
Only exception to this was larger calibre, heavy round nose projectiles that dented the plate rather than cratered it as the high speed projectiles did.

Originally Posted by janleroux

Got some decent plates now (maybe a bit too big, but good for testing). Also received revised the PCB now so I am busy building a few up as we speak.


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The US-Military did tests back-in-the-day, with 7.62 nato, a bunch of other calibers, and 6.5x55. They fired into compressed-damp sand. I dont know the range, but the 6.5x55 won the penetration-test and out-penetrated the 308 by 9" !.. And that is why 120gr is more than enough for any Deer, in 6.5cal...the rest go straight-through unless they hit something substantial, and at very long-range, they can sometimes be too slow, to expand properly

Originally Posted by janleroux

At what sort of range you recon the projectiles could turn back and still be dangerous?

This is what a centerfire does to the mild steel plate. What will a .22 do it?


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I was surprised to see my 223 with 69gr SMKs cut effortlessly through 8mm mild steel at 100m.
Soft points dented the hell out of it, my the SMKs bore clean holes straight through.

Originally Posted by rewa

The US-Military did tests back-in-the-day, with 7.62 nato, a bunch of other calibers, and 6.5x55. They fired into compressed-damp sand. I dont know the range, but the 6.5x55 won the penetration-test and out-penetrated the 308 by 9" !.. And that is why 120gr is more than enough for any Deer, in 6.5cal...the rest go straight-through unless they hit something substantial, and at very long-range, they can sometimes be too slow, to expand properly

Originally Posted by Beetroot

I was surprised to see my 223 with 69gr SMKs cut effortlessly through 8mm mild steel at 100m.
Soft points dented the hell out of it, my the SMKs bore clean holes straight through.

I always thought armour piercing rounds was all about what the tip was made off (ie some hardened steel tip or similar). But this means that a special projectile at a very high velocity will go through for example a vehicle quite easily.

Interesting stuff!


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Originally Posted by janleroux

I always thought armour piercing rounds was all about what the tip was made off (ie some hardened steel tip or similar).

If you break it down (same caliber, same velocity, different projectile), it all comes down to sectional density (SD).
That's why the SMK (SD 196) was going through steel and the PSP (typical SD 157) only dented it.

Sectional density is interesting in that a projectiles SD is only accurate prior to impacting a target and deforming. As soon as it deforms the SD reduces. SD being a measure of projectile diameter vs projectile weight. Diameter increases as a projectile deforms, weight reduces or stays the same and so SD reduces.
Saying one projectile or caliber will penetrate better than another due to its SD is only possible when using non-expanding projectiles.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Sectional density is interesting in that a projectiles SD is only accurate prior to impacting a target and deforming. As soon as it deforms the SD reduces. SD being a measure of projectile diameter vs projectile weight. Diameter increases as a projectile deforms, weight reduces or stays the same and so SD reduces.
Saying one projectile or caliber will penetrate better than another due to its SD is only possible when using non-expanding projectiles.

This is why I like high SD target bullets for hunting. As long as the bullet is extremely fragile and the SD is very high and maybe not going too fast either. 2800ft/sec is heaps if the BC is high. The SD will get you just enough penetration. The projectile then jams the handbrake on once it is in the soft stuff and disintegrates.

This seems to give superb kills at all sorts of angles, as long as you don't mind meat damage and bits of copper jacket in the backstraps.

SD .....plurry heck you fellas.....back in the 80s a TV show called "thats incredible" did this one to death....bullet Vs arrow into bag of sand....arrow went through,bullet stopped. the arse of the arrow or a long bullet is still pushing the front as it meets resistance,,,,plus the pencil Vs fist thing..smaller frontal area meets less resistance than a larger area so LOGIC will dictate it will penertrate better....shows the futility of standing behind something less than a solid brick wall if being shot at....