Thread: Acceptable group size at long range ?

The ability to get in position and put a round into a realistic, practical size target ought to be considered more important than attempting to shave 7 centimeters off your theoretical "group size" at a kilometer


I don't think .25moa is a practical target size by any means I'm just trying to make a point


You have a .25moa rifle, right? It should be easy for you then.

Is it if that person is doing all their shooting at 1000+ yards?

No point even getting into position in front of your practical size target if you ain't gunna hit it!

For example, If you want to shoot stuff at 500yards, the 1st thing you do is get a rifle and load that is capable of shooting stuff at 500 yards! The debate has always been about what level of MOA is required to do this, but it is obvious that a rifle that shoots 1/4 MOA will do the job better than a rifle that shoots 2MOA!

The next thing you have to do to shoot stuff at 500 yards is practice the ability to get into position and put a round in your realistic, practical size target!

If you would rather do this in reverse order you obviously don't have a taste for venison?

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

For example, If you want to shoot stuff at 500yards, the 1st thing you do is get a rifle and load that is capable of shooting stuff at 500 yards! The debate has always been about what level of MOA is required to do this, but it is obvious that a rifle that shoots 1/4 MOA will do the job better than a rifle that shoots 2MOA!

The next thing you have to do to shoot stuff at 500 yards is practice the ability to get into position and put a round in your realistic, practical size target!

All I'm saying is that there is near-total focus on your "First thing", past the point of what is practically useful, and the 'second thing' is almost universally ignored.


What would you say the number of threads discussing accuracy/improving accuracy is like compared to the number of threads discussing improving the ability to hit things?


Self-assessment and honesty with yourself are key. If you shot a .25moa group, that's great. If it's not on the target, maybe you need to re-prioritise because a great group off the target is useless

I am talking about groups because this is what this thread is about Gimp. This is where this will go around in circles all day, what's the point in trying to hit the target in the 1st place if you don't have the load to do the job. A good load to begin with makes the whole process so much easier. If you take shortcuts fine tuning your load, shortcuts with your drop chart and shortcuts with your practice....well good luck

it's your opinion vs anothers

Go about your long range shooting as you wish

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

This is where this will go around in circles all day, what's the point in trying to hit the target in the 1st place if you don't have the load to do the job. If you take shortcuts fine tuning your load, shortcuts with your drop chart and shortcuts with your practice....well good luck

it's your opinion vs anothers

Go about your long range shooting as you wish

That's a strawman. Of course you're not going to consistently hit a 1moa target with a load that groups 3moa. I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is that since no-one is practically trying to shoot .25moa targets, and improving your theoretical precision to .25moa from say .5moa does not practically improve your ability to hit a practical sized target, then it is a waste of time.

I haven't said anything about taking shortcuts on my dropchart, in fact I think that it is a very overlooked area of long range as well, where most people simply plug numbers into a PDA and trust it. From my observations at the long range shoots I've attended that certainly isn't a 100% solution for anything.


I'm also trying to make the point that you can practice all you like, if you're not practicing the important things, it's no good to you.



These are things that are continually ignored and overlooked in favour of "how do I get a .25moa load"

One thing I must add more importantly, if you are going to learn anything from your practice and misses while shooting or hunting, it makes things far easier to be able to discount your rifle and load from the mix!

[QUOTE=gimp;9733]

The ability to get in position and put a round into a realistic, practical size target ought to be considered more important than attempting to shave 7 centimeters off your theoretical "group size" at a kilometer

Yup. It is what field shooting is all about. I reckon there are too many variables. Even if someone manages to fire 10 rounds and score 10 out of 10 on .25' bulls at said range, I doubt it could be done everyday. If you can there is heaps of money and sponsorship to be won as world champion in several discipline's.