Thread: Acceptable group size at long range ?

I have been wondering recently what Shooters think is an acceptable average 3 shot group size at long range in good conditions ?
I'm talking about normalish LR rigs lying in a paddock etc with a bipod & rear bag, not 60lb railgun type rigs.
For instance I have no idea what size the F class boys shoot as an average for various classes.
It goes without saying that obviously less is more in this case.
I don't want this to turn into your average internet BS pissing competition, with heaps of input from keyboard shooters

I'm talking about 4-500 out to as far as you can shoot, on a reasonably regular basis.

Is it 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1 moa ? or bigger ?

I'm talking about shooting targets, steel, paper, rocks etc.

And be honest, I know the records are under 2" at 1000 for various calibres.......

To what end? What question is on your mind?

Originally Posted by Wildman

To what end? What question is on your mind?

Just wondering where I should be heading with group sizes.

Is it feasible to be trying/striving the shoot 0.25 or what ever, moa groups or is anything under 1moa acceptable ?

Is 0.25 or what ever, moa unrealistic/impossible.

If it isn't that possible whats the point trying to achieve it unless you like pulling all your hair out, for me that wouldn't take long

Just trying to get an idea what other shooters think....

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Just wondering where I should be heading with group sizes.

Is it feasible to be trying/striving the shoot 0.25 or what ever, moa groups or is anything under 1moa acceptable ?

Is 0.25 or what ever, moa unrealistic/impossible.

If it isn't that possible whats the point trying to achieve it unless you like pulling all your hair out, for me that wouldn't take long

Just trying to get an idea what other shooters think....

What size target do you want to hit at what range, i would want sub moa, as 1 moa @ 100 yards = about an inch and then two inches at 200 yards and so forth

Originally Posted by mucko

What size target do you want to hit at what range, i would want sub moa, as 1 moa @ 100 yards = about an inch and then two inches at 200 yards and so forth

I have come to the conclusion that obviously less is more but around an average of .5-.6 moa at range is where you need to be & is working fine for me so far.

I would like better but field conditions really don't allow that most of the time beyond 5-600 yards......

Having enough "horsepower" when shots end up being slightly less than ideal is helpful.

I reckon you should strive to match the groups that you shoot at your zero range, at all ranges. Therory of the group applys of course. I have shot a few groups at 700 and beyond that puts a smile on my face but so far havent managed it everytime. Usually my fault as well. Wrong Data inputs or forget to input/note a change the conditions dictate.
I dont really worry as long as I try to do my bit and make the first one fall in my expected MPI.
It was better when the Queen paid for me to muck around with heaps of ammo.

I'm more worried about getting the first shot where I want it than groups

Originally Posted by gimp

I'm more worried about getting the first shot where I want it than groups

best thing ever to come off the end of gimps fingers....

What sort of question is this greg? How do, can, will we accomadate the variables?

I can and do regularly under 2" at 650m as you well know..

And 2" groups at much further are and can often be pulled (as we well know)

But the age old accuracy classification becomes much less desirable LR... for example MOA at 800m is pretty terrible (Moa at 100m is terrible)...

0.25 MOA is starting to get pedantic and variably unrealistic SO I put in a top vote on Half 0.5MOA.. and we would have to be happy...

Originally Posted by baldbob

0.25 MOA is starting to get pedantic and variably unrealistic SO I put in a top vote on Half 0.5MOA.. and we would have to be happy...

Thats the sort of answer I was looking for

I'm no long ranger by any means but maybe work backwards. What size target do you want to hit at what range? Mine would be hunting related. i.e. I would want to be able to hit deer at 500m consistently.

Who cares when adam only shoots steel past 500 anyway.......

And within that its only goats these days?

I think the answer is a combination of what gimp and wildman have said. An acceptable group size is consistantly smaller than the target you intend to hit. This will mean 1st round hits are a reality, not a possibility. If your rifle "is capable" of shooting further than you can group consistantly, then it means either (a) your current load is not accurate enough, or (b) you need more practice, and/or (c) you aren't capable of shooting further. Go back to (b) then...

My vote to would go with .5 MOA and anything smaller is a bonus

You guys crack me up, what happened to all the sharp shooters out there with their 100 yard targets with 25 rounds through them?

Think 0.25 MOA at 400+ is not realistic? You would have been better off using your 25 rounds for some load development at 500 yards rather than waste them at 100 yards. Seating depth and .5 powder +- is a good one that shows up well at 500.

Forum member Mossies new Sendero is a good example of this, 3 shots into a 4" red dot at 500yards. It shot 1.25" And the wind was not the best for shooting. Next day he shot a deer at 550 I think it was. Perfect elevation.

Does he need to waste 25 rounds to claim this accuracy? No Way! It's 500 yards, they are going to warm up and climb up the target!

I think the better way would be to go to the range and spend short trips shooting x2 or x3 shots at the same target, at the same range but in different conditions. After a few trips you will soon find out what you and your rifle can do.

As Gimp said 1st shots are the important thing. But you also want to make sure every time you do your 1st few shots they are nice and close together

KiwiGreg, im sure many of your rifles are more than capable of 0.25 at range, after all it was your gun and your load that Mossie was using to do the job!

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

You guys crack me up, what happened to all the sharp shooters out there with their 100 yard targets with 25 rounds through them?

Think 0.25 MOA at 400+ is not realistic? You would have been better off using your 25 rounds for some load development at 500 yards rather than waste them at 100 yards. Seating depth and .5 powder +- is a good one that shows up well at 500.

Forum member Mossies new Sendero is a good example of this, 3 shots into a 4" red dot at 500yards. It shot 1.25" And the wind was not the best for shooting. Next day he shot a deer at 550 I think it was. Perfect elevation.

Does he need to waste 25 rounds to claim this accuracy? No Way! It's 500 yards, they are going to warm up and climb up the target!

I think the better way would be to go to the range and spend short trips shooting x2 or x3 shots at the same target, at the same range but in different conditions. After a few trips you will soon find out what you and your rifle can do.

As Gimp said 1st shots are the important thing. But you also want to make sure every time you do your 1st few shots they are nice and close together

KiwiGreg, im sure many of your rifles are more than capable of 0.25 at range, after all it was your gun and your load that Mossie was using to do the job!

Hand on heart dose your Rem 7mm mag average with more than one group .25MOA or is it more like .60 MOA