Thread: An accuracy challenge

Originally Posted by gimp

Practicing the fundamentals of shooting at 100 meters is a pretty good idea and not a waste of ammunition, at least in my opinion.

I agree about the practicing the fundamentals of shooting, and I certainly should practice more... Most of what I do is shooting rocks, plate, etc at longer ranges for practice. Doesn't prove that my rifle(s) is a sub MOA rifle, but what I have done during the load development with each of them gives me the confidence to say that they are sub MOA.

I think I might just put the wheels in motion to switch barrel my Barnard so I can practice more though...

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

Originally Posted by Philipo

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

the groups may mean less but the shooting practice re getting used to the gun is important....as long as its done in feild type shooting positions

3 shot groups are indicators...then fine tune with 5 shots is how I do it..... sometimes just the one 5 shot group is done and if it shoots OK good enough for me

Little paddles make good targets too at 100

Originally Posted by Philipo

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

If you've got the right twist rate and consistent speeds then an accurate load at 100 should be an accurate load further out. Load testing at 400 meters would be somewhat ridiculous due to wind etc.

If it's shit at 100 it's never going to be good further out. Your angular dispersion isn't going to improve once the bullet has left the rifle. If you're getting "better" results (in angular terms) at longer ranges than 100 meters it's parallax or something.

The magazines shoot 3-shot groups because it makes the rifles that they are trying to sell look better.


I don't actually like shooting groups at all, it's not the most practical training. That day I was just mucking around with my zero and found the target in my rangebag last night. Always see people saying "my rifle will shoot MOA all day long" etc. Okay, so prove it then.

Well you wont be targeting me with that fish either. I certainly can't claim a sub moa rifle, though I suspect I have one, but with my shooting I couldn't tell. I'm consistently getting 28-29mm groups but can't for the life of me figure out how to stop the point I'm aiming at dancing all over the cross hairs. One of these days I should get someone to teach this decrepit old fool how to shoot.

Sorry, getting off topic a bit here again, but I find the 1st and 8th post quite interesting here:

Severely Overbore Chartidges and short barrel life myths... - LongRangeHunting Online Magazine

here is a seating test I did recently with my 20BR

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100m, 9*3 shot groups, nothing over 0.9" (if you ignore my pulled shot).

Might try a 5x5 next time at range

100m and 300m groups

Heres my latest effort at the range. just on bag at front with a stiff crosswind at 100m. Chaterarms fieldking 243, factory FED Powershok 100gr. Group to right is .056 and group to left is .75, cant complain with the 3-9-40 elite and my shooting lol


Top shot is my girlfriends first shot ever at 100m , not bad lol NB Adjustment made to left from first group

Originally Posted by gimp

The magazines shoot 3-shot groups because it makes the rifles that they are trying to sell look better.

Regular barrels are thinner and heat up faster. The forth and 5th shot are more likely to be fliers than with a heavy varmint barrel. Thats why the tikka sporter is guaranteed to shoot 5 shots inside of 1 MOA at 100y instead of the 3 with a regular T3. I'm a recent convert over from competition Air rifling - the sporter is my first firearm, though 16 years ago i was in the Infantry. I've only put 40 rounds through it in total and you can see it has potential. It is still set with a heavy trigger too. I slapped a Falcon Menace 4-14 scope on it with Burris Zee rings. All very much basic extras you'll all agree.
Thats std Federal black tips on the left and Lapua in the middle and right (still managed to flick one somehow). Once i use up my 200 shiny Lapua factory loads and begin handloading I'll see if i can meet this 5 group 5 shot MOA test. Do i get a medal if i pass lol? or at least a discount coupon? I reckon all these 'sub MOA' rifles are exactly that, BUT... i'm personally only impressed if you do it prone or sitting. I'd be gob smacked if you did it offhand!!!


I'm still getting used to the rifle but i'm sure i could do much better with the Feds - i just ran out of them.

3 shot groups test the load and rifle. 5 shot groups test the shooter. Most shooters will struggle to put up a good 5 shot group with a heavy recoiling gun, even suppressed. Its all about shoulder pressure, and any subtle difference will throw a shot out of the group.

Originally Posted by Taupohunter

3 shot groups test the load and rifle. 5 shot groups test the shooter. Most shooters will struggle to put up a good 5 shot group with a heavy recoiling gun, even suppressed. Its all about shoulder pressure, and any subtle difference will throw a shot out of the group.

Agree for my shooting anyway, if I had more patience/time it would be single shots...but two with a few minutes wait time keeps the gun cold and keeps my shooting at its sharpest (which isn't all that flash)

Originally Posted by The Claw

I agree about the practicing the fundamentals of shooting, and I certainly should practice more... Most of what I do is shooting rocks, plate, etc at longer ranges for practice. Doesn't prove that my rifle(s) is a sub MOA rifle, but what I have done during the load development with each of them gives me the confidence to say that they are sub MOA.

I think I might just put the wheels in motion to switch barrel my Barnard so I can practice more though...

The money you spend on the second barrel and fitting might as well go to the next 338 barrel....and just get used to shooting the big one so you know it inside out. You might even be surprised how long you barrel lasts if you dont shoot to many to fast
Then one you know it in and out the need to practice lots is gone...just the odd refresher LR shoot

Originally Posted by leathel

The money you spend on the second barrel and fitting might as well go to the next 338 barrel....and just get used to shooting the big one so you know it inside out. You might even be surprised how long you barrel lasts if you dont shoot to many to fast
Then one you know it in and out the need to practice lots is gone...just the odd refresher LR shoot

True, but I "need" a LR rifle thats able to be supressed... Everything other than ballistics will be the same with the switch barrel setup. Its not as though I don't fire the Lunatic (or am worried about barrel life either), I've put 150 odd rounds through it in the last year.

There are some pesky hares living near our house (well 800-900m away) and her in doors isn't that impressed with the Lunatic being shot off the deck... I knew I would regret selling my Barnard 6.5x47L...

Anyway, back to the topic now, sorry bout the sidetrack...