Thread: All in the trigger.....

Took a mate out to check zero on his rifle today, he owns a lovely rem 700 xcr 2 chambered in the timeless 270win.
Nothing to flady but a very nice slick action.
He reckons his scope took a knock about 6 months prior so he wasn't confident it was still on target.
While at it he wanted to change from 150gn hornandy whitetails to 130gn whitetails so perfect timing, he only shoots factory ammo so both offerings being good options just he was able to lay his hands on multiple boxes of the 130gn for a good price.
I got him to put a couple rounds through it and went to check his grouping.....around 6-7" high but centered, however about 3" either side of the center so a rather poor 6" group.....we were both shocked my mate was quite concerned his rifle was suffering some sort of catastrophic failure or the ammo was not suited to his rifle.
I asked if I could try put a few rounds through it, he agreed so I got comfortable behind his rifle, chambered a round and set about trying to send a 130gn whitetail down range, gently squeezed the trigger.....nothing, applied significantly more pressure on the trigger.....still nothing.
Looked at my mate and asked if he had put the safety on....."no its good to go" I opened the bolt and carefully ejected the unfired round and then asked if I could try a dry fire with a spent case (mate is an engineer and doesn't like dry firing) he agreed and so I set about chambering a fired case and trying to squeeze the trigger off.....fuck me this thing must've been in excess of 12lbs I immediately suggested to my mate that the trigger was likely the culprit for his poor group and we could easily sort that out, he was a bit non plussed about it but was willing to let me look at it as long as I didn't make it like my trigger (sub 1lb), no tools at the range so with the stupidly heavy trigger now a known issue I set about loading and sending a couple rounds down range making sure I had a solid rest and a good idea of how the trigger broke.
I also dialled the scope down 4.5"
Job done 2 shots within 1/2" more than acceptable, handed over rifle to my mate again to have another crack and he shot about 3" but similar poi to my group.
Went home cleaned and dried the rifles and reset my mates trigger to a very acceptable 3lbs, will get back to the range when the weather improves but have told my mate that I suspect his grops will improve greatly with the lighter trigger.
Sounds like I'll be loading for him when his supply of hornandy ammo drys up
Here is my group circled in red vs his group circled in yellow, you can see if his shots were stacked on the same vertical plane as my 2 shots he would have shot a very similar group to mine.
It certainly is possible to shoot good groups with an excessively heavy trigger, but shit it requires a bit of effort.
Before anyone points out, yes I normally shoot 3 shot groups when zeroing a rifle, but only shot 2 shot groups as I didn't wanna burn through my mates factory ammo.
Good times making stuff go bang in the freezing cold and wet

You need to educate your engineer friend that dry firing a Centerfire isn’t a problem , but Rimfire is a different thing entirely.
I agree about trigger pull weight being a considerable contributor to good repeatable accuracy and on all of my rifles it is usually the first thing I alter .
If the rifle doesn’t have a good trigger out of the box or at least adjustable trigger in this day and age then I don’t buy it

Originally Posted by Ground Control

You need to educate your engineer friend that dry firing a Centerfire isn’t a problem , but Rimfire is a different thing entirely.
I agree about trigger pull weight being a considerable contributor to good repeatable accuracy and on all of my rifles it is usually the first thing I alter .
If the rifle doesn’t have a good trigger out of the box or at least adjustable trigger in this day and age then I don’t buy it

Totally agree on both counts, his rifle and if he wants to never dry fire that's his call, I have told him it won't hurt it but hey its easy enough to slap a fired case in it.
He's never known different as far as the trigger weigh is concerned, he steadfastly agrees now that the lighter trigger will be easier to shoot consistently, look forward to next range outing it's a bloody nice rifle

If he's used to the 2T trigger pull - make a point of telling him to actively think about the trigger pull every tinme he goes to shoot the thing so he doesn't touch off early 'in the moment'. Good way to miss or hit in a poor placement while he's adjusting to the lighter more normal trigger weight!

Originally Posted by No.3

If he's used to the 2T trigger pull - make a point of telling him to actively think about the trigger pull every tinme he goes to shoot the thing so he doesn't touch off early 'in the moment'. Good way to miss or hit in a poor placement while he's adjusting to the lighter more normal trigger weight!

Absolutely, he's keen as mud to get some more trigger time shooting like he would in the field, prone over pack or sitting rested on natural rest (tree stump rock etc) didn't see the point in blazing off heaps of ammo seated at the bench but also not that keen to lay down prone in the mud and pissing down rain
Looking forward to watching him progress and gain confidence

And I thought parker hale trigger was bad. Way better after I put the screws in it but needed way more expert polishing than I am able to do at the moment. Still feels good until you are sighting it in
Nothing like 12 pound

Educate him that dryfiring is a legitimate practicing tool and is a lot cheaper than shooting factory ammo!

A nice 1-2 pound trigger is great but because I have a couple of rifles with heavier triggers when at the range I dryfire when swapping between rifles or it always goes off before I expected when swapping back to the lighter ones.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Educate him that dryfiring is a legitimate practicing tool and is a lot cheaper than shooting factory ammo!

A nice 1-2 pound trigger is great but because I have a couple of rifles with heavier triggers when at the range I dryfire when swapping between rifles or it always goes off before I expected when swapping back to the lighter ones.

He's pretty adamant it's not good for the firing pin have tried to convince him otherwise but hey I'm not an engineer he's happy enough using a fired case so will leave him with that for practice, we have set the factory trigger at 3lbs which to me still feels heavy but it's a shit ton lighter than it was. I've never weighed my triggers always adjusted them till they felt right, suspect my Sako is sub 1lb and I absolutely love it and shoot very well with it.
The manual that comes with the Rem XCR 2 says not to adjust below 3lbs does anyone know is that just for legal liability stuff ?
Either way he's happy at 3lbs and unlikely to spend fun tokens on a timmney or jard etc.

I don’t like dry firing either, but I have a couple of snap caps for each rifle

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Educate him that dryfiring is a legitimate practicing tool and is a lot cheaper than shooting factory ammo!

A nice 1-2 pound trigger is great but because I have a couple of rifles with heavier triggers when at the range I dryfire when swapping between rifles or it always goes off before I expected when swapping back to the lighter ones.

I used a BLR 308 for 25 odd years or so ,there triggers are the one thing that lets them down, they must be around 4 or 5 lbs with a fair bit of creep throne in for good luck!!, so when i bought my T3 rem mag i lightened off the trigger virtually to as light as it would go , don't know but must be about 1.5 lbs.
I may have been influenced by reading Greg Duleys articles, but it took me awhile to get used to having a light crisp trigger, but now i love it.
Spent a lot of time dry firing ,squeezing off the trigger and not seeing any apparent movement from the scope retical on my target.
If i use my BLR again then go back to my tikka i sometimes let a shot off unexpectedly if i don't dry fire a few beforehand.

Hey Danny . I had a Remington 700 at one time. Got the trigger adjusted by the shop. ( pre Xmark trigger) . It was way better . The only thing that I found was that if you put pressure on the trigger with the safety on , when you flick the safety off the gun fired ( sometimes ).
Not ideal , haha. Quick trip across the road back to the shop from where I worked and sorted.
Seems like you could lighten to much causing the issue.
I doubt that the later triggers would allow this to happen though. I think they said you should adjust , thump the butt a few times and flick off the safety to see if it fired . ( not loaded of course)

@dannyb

One of the best things he can do is get a 22lr and adjust the trigger to a similar weight and feel as his 270. Then do a heap of field style shooting with that, lots of trigger time in the same position he's likely to be using the 270 in.

Focus on precision, either at targets, or better yet shooting rabbits etc.

Over the last 3 years I've done an absolute heap of rabbit shooting from mostly prone, some using 22lr, but mostly using 17hmr and 17 Hornet. Ammo costs reimbursed by land owners.

It's been the best thing for my shooting, it practices every part of my hunting and shooting technique.

I'm mostly shooting in orchards where many of the rabbits are sitting in the cover around the bases of trees etc, I use binos to glass down the rows and spot rabbits that would normally not be see without them, then I range and make scope adjustment if necessary and shoot from a prone position.

Not only is it great trigger time and shooting technique practice but im sure it also helps hone your eye when glassing looking for things that just done look right. I'm certain it helps me see more deer.

Originally Posted by Chunk

Hey Danny . I had a Remington 700 at one time. Got the trigger adjusted by the shop. ( pre Xmark trigger) . It was way better . The only thing that I found was that if you put pressure on the trigger with the safety on , when you flick the safety off the gun fired ( sometimes ).
Not ideal , haha. Quick trip across the road back to the shop from where I worked and sorted.
Seems like you could lighten to much causing the issue.
I doubt that the later triggers would allow this to happen though. I think they said you should adjust , thump the butt a few times and flick off the safety to see if it fired . ( not loaded of course)

Yeah did al the usual saftey checks, bump the butt, cycle the bolt, pull trigger with saftey on etc it's safe as houses

Originally Posted by GWH

@dannyb

One of the best things he can do is get a 22lr and adjust the trigger to a similar weight and feel as his 270. Then do a heap of field style shooting with that, lots of trigger time in the same position he's likely to be using the 270 in.

Focus on precision, either at targets, or better yet shooting rabbits etc.

Over the last 3 years I've done an absolute heap of rabbit shooting from mostly prone, some using 22lr, but mostly using 17hmr and 17 Hornet. Ammo costs reimbursed by land owners.

It's been the best thing for my shooting, it practices every part of my hunting and shooting technique.

I'm mostly shooting in orchards where many of the rabbits are sitting in the cover around the bases of trees etc, I use binos to glass down the rows and spot rabbits that would normally not be see without them, then I range and make scope adjustment if necessary and shoot from a prone position.

Not only is it great trigger time and shooting technique practice but im sure it also helps hone your eye when glassing looking for things that just done look right. I'm certain it helps me see more deer.

I cut my teeth shooting hares with rimfire 22lr and 17hmr, it certainly made me a much better shooter and spotter, whilst my mate wants a 22lr he's unlikely to buy one any time soon, too many projects on the go and young family a bit like me I'll keep encouraging him though and he'll eventually cave

Mate, my groups turn to sheit with a heavy trigger. All of mine are set to 1.2lb, as soon as I jump on someone else's rifle the groups spread out lol