Thread: B Cat Holder Wanted!!

Originally Posted by Tussock

Kind of the opposite. Its a piece of metal with bits that go click and snack and you put things in it that go bang.

The idea they tell you some mytical secrets to how to deal with a small projectile launching machine, is essentially silly. Military and police are government departments. They are about as sophisticated and light on their feet as any other government department.

The only time I have done weapons training with police officers, they had come to the gym I was in to learn from the guy I was learning from. He was marine scientist, former block layer and general clever/hard bastard. Those cops spent enough time with their guns to see holes in their training and look for ways to fill them (not NZ).

Grappling with guns is actually quite fun. Adds a new/odd dimension.

I guarantee you, your average Kiwi cop is as good as anyone at all the things required to not shoot a gun.

I seriously doubt they know anything about handling one you could not learn from a dozen other sources.

You missed my point,having expelled a bucket load of rounds thru a Sig myself I don't class myself as an expert at telling someone else how to shoot a pistol
But yet people still feel they know everything regaurdless of many rounds they have shot.Who care's how much people know because in the real world doing is far more important.

Originally Posted by Tussock

I would find the old guy who who has ready every book and forum on the planet, and has been shooting pistols for 50 years. Or just read the books myself.

If you don't know anything, the doing is pretty irrelevant. Its called being a moron. The world is full of morons doing things. Morons do heaps of stuff. Some people who know nothing, have been doing things for years. Arguably, you really only get better at being ignorant.

A guy reads and studies and practices something for 50 years. What is the natural next step? Write a book. If you can read and remember the contents, you have the distilled version of his 50 years of experience. A far far better starting point for your own experience.

You can teach yourself anything if you can read well. I taught myself to ski from online manuals. I read manuals all night Friday, went out Saturday and everyone said I was a natural. I was not. Experts allowed me to skip a whole bunch of experience by handing me theirs. I did the same thing with waterskiing.

I suggest you find the book on Cutting to the chase,you could just call me a mooron instead of waffling shit I wouldn't care.Ive learnt from doing so far in my life and its served me well, to think you cant do anything practicle without reading and understanding Is just arrogant bullshit.In the end this about Dougie having a go and it spirals into the usual game of 2 up witch dosnt have a book that im aware of.

Originally Posted by Neckshot

I suggest you find the book on Cutting to the chase,you could just call me a mooron instead of waffling shit I wouldn't care.Ive learnt from doing so far in my life and its served me well, to think you cant do anything practicle without reading and understanding Is just arrogant bullshit.In the end this about Dougie having a go and it spirals into the usual game of 2 up witch dosnt have a book that im aware of.

I just want the book that will serve me better than any type of formal training, police or otherwise, that is now it seems, a waste of time.

Originally Posted by R93

I just want the book that will serve me better than any type of formal training, police or otherwise, that is now it seems, a waste of time.

I might go to the library tonight and get a book out on flying choppers R93. Watch your back mate I could have your job on Monday. In fact fuck it I will have a good dream tonight and take it tomorrow. How hard can it be?

Originally Posted by Rushy

I might go to the library tonight and get a book out on flying choppers R93. Watch your back mate I could have your job on Monday. In fact fuck it I will have a good dream tonight and take it tomorrow. How hard can it be?

If I can do it..............It would have to be pretty friggin easy Rushy.
My flight instructors got sick of wiping my mouth with my bib to stop me dribbling into essential avionics I was also a handful when my sippy cup got empty

Originally Posted by R93

If I can do it..............It would have to be pretty friggin easy Rushy.
My flight instructors got sick of wiping my mouth with my bib to stop me dribbling into essential avionics I was also a handful when my sippy cup got empty

Well I haven't read the book yet (nor had the dream) but hell two seconds of thought and I reckon up, down, forward, backward, left and right will have it mostly covered. Ha ha Ha Ha. Now that I am on a roll I will read a book on Brian Barrett Boys and do open heart surgery on Monday instead. Your job is safe now. On to loftier things.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Formal training means its all written down somewhere. In other words, its directly from a book.

I was just a dumb grunt. Your semantics are confusing me

Originally Posted by Tussock

It means you didn't get a copy of the book

I admit to being a dumb grunt and slightly in awe of your current training methodoligy.

If I gave you all the written doctrine there is on say, a section sized attack on a fixed position. You should be able to train 10 of your chosen men how to accomplish this better than I could, going by your logic?
My experience in this regard counts for nothing?

Originally Posted by R93

I admit to being a dumb grunt and slightly in awe of your current training methodoligy.

If I gave you all the written doctrine there is on say, a section sized attack on a fixed position. You should be able to train 10 of your chosen men how to accomplish this better than I could, going by your logic?
My experience in this regard counts for nothing?

Add in the complexity of a mortar crew to provide cover and make it a nocturnal assault and I will join your section if you are short a man

Originally Posted by Rushy

Add in the complexity of a mortar crew to provide cover and make it a nocturnal assault and I will join your section if you are short a man

I am not short and only know the daylight "Up the guts assault" sorry, Rushy. You can go lead scout and I will call in DFSW and indirect, danger close

Originally Posted by Tussock

Did you read anything I wrote? Where did I say experience counts for nothing? Suggesting experience alone is ever remotely productive is stupid. Suggesting just reading alone is remotely productive, also stupid.

However, if you gave me all the written doctrine available, that would only be a starting point.

If I think "section sized attack on a fixed position" I think Charles Upham. Who was a surveyor, and is sited as having an utterly superb eye for terrain when attacking a fixed position.

He had knowledge outside of the realm of military doctrine, and outside the realm of his own experience.

Put it this way. If your rely solely on your formal training, plus the things you bump into (experience), you will never compete with someone who has the same experience as you, same training as you, but also has read widely, and therefore has the benefit of thousands of other peoples experience.

Thats all most books are. A distillation of someone's experience. Its like cheating. That person who worked and studied for 40 put down the best of his experience, on paper, for the express purpose of giving me a head start.

Yes, I have read what you have written. You and others have in my opinion, have discredited formal training that is available to members of police and the like.
Again my opinion, but I believe you are overlooking the reasons they are trained the way they are, by applying what is to you, a better and more logical approach. Yet, strangely you have no experience what so ever, being trained in and for their environment.

The police may not have the best pistol shots in NZ but I would expect they are trained to a standard that their current post/position requires.
They are also trained in such a way that it may not show fruit in a pistol club competition, but it will give them the best chance of carring out their job of downing a crim if they ever need to.