Call to Arms

The part that gets me from what Mr. Cahill has said was this: “He claims firearms which resemble military weapons and other semi-automatics pose a danger to the public." Little does he know that pretty much ALL firearms resemble military weapons one way or another. Where do you think your favorite hunting rifle originates from?

This comment annoys me because there seems to be a sector divided between firearm owners (fudds) about anything that resembles a black rifle. Not naming names but there are a few on this forum who certainly don't live in apathy about it and make it very clear they don't appreciate a certain type of semi-auto. You can't tell me you're that naive that your favorite Sako 85 in the whole wide world doesn't resemble a military weapon.

I could use the same analogy on cars: fast cars, slow cars, electric cars, red cars, blue cars, ones with spoilers & wheels - you get the idea?

I care about your rights & right to own your firearm of choice just as you should do for mine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

Yes, we do need to keep it civil and focus on the facts and message, not the messenger.
I'm no lawyer, but Cahill is not directly slandering as to cause a direct financial loss by drop in income earnings or directly harm a persons or groups reputation, so no legal action would work.
Nor is he a public servant anymore, he is employed by the union, so not subject to any State sector legislation.

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That is a maybe , it all depends on who negotiates his pay if it is the PSA then he falls under the Public service .

Maybe we need to educate the public on what center fire ammo costs. Even a cheapy 7.62 x 39 would make a serious dent in the wallet on full auto.

I hope so Tankd. However the State Sector Act 1988 does not list Police as being a public service.

State Sector Act 1988 No 20 (as at 17 December 2016), Public Act Schedule*1 Departments of the Public Service – New Zealand Legislation

PSA certainly covers Defence Force, MOJ and Corrections, not sure if it covers members of the Police who choose to be PSA rather than in the PA?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

The part that gets me from what Mr. Cahill has said was this: “He claims firearms which resemble military weapons and other semi-automatics pose a danger to the public." Little does he know that pretty much ALL firearms resemble military weapons one way or another. Where do you think your favorite hunting rifle originates from?

This comment annoys me because there seems to be a sector divided between firearm owners (fudds) about anything that resembles a black rifle. Not naming names but there are a few on this forum who certainly don't live in apathy about it and make it very clear they don't appreciate a certain type of semi-auto. You can't tell me you're that naive that your favorite Sako 85 in the whole wide world doesn't resemble a military weapon.

I could use the same analogy on cars: fast cars, slow cars, electric cars, red cars, blue cars, ones with spoilers & wheels - you get the idea?

I care about your rights & right to own your firearm of choice just as you should do for mine.

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I cant say I have noticed any anti black gun sentiment on this forum? plenty of reference to it but I dont recall seeing any?
Im not saying that there are no anti black gun firearm owners there are plenty it is just that most if not all that participate on here even if they dont personally like or own one support your right to have one and use it.I for one am the second.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I cant say I have noticed any anti black gun sentiment on this forum? plenty of reference to it but I dont recall seeing any?
Im not saying that there are no anti black gun firearm owners there are plenty it is just that most if not all that participate on here even if they dont personally like or own one support your right to have one and use it.I for one am the second.

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Oh it exists on this forum and I can certainly reference it if required, however doing so would be selfish and counterproductive as it only serves to achieve the PA's goal which appears to be "divide and conquer" (referring to Cahill's supposed campfire chat with hunters claiming that they don't semi-autos).

We must not fall into that trap - we need to remember that this is about all licensed firearm owners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I cant say I have noticed any anti black gun sentiment on this forum? plenty of reference to it but I dont recall seeing any?
Im not saying that there are no anti black gun firearm owners there are plenty it is just that most if not all that participate on here even if they dont personally like or own one support your right to have one and use it.I for one am the second.

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I have witnessed it from time to time, but I can't site any specific examples off the top of my head, mainly because I don't get hung up on other peoples ignorance or troll attempts. By far and large this is an inclusive board that paralells attitudes displayed on social media. Cahills comments provoked outrage among hunters and shooters on facebook yesterday. To be fair the select committee report has shaken the fence pretty hard. Regular Joe A cat hunters and shooters can see that the recommendations would have a direct effect on them, and they are not happy. This isn't just a pissing contest between MSSA owners and police HQ, like we have experianced being on the thin end of the wedge. Everybody is on board and it is great to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beavis

I have witnessed it from time to time, but I can't site any specific examples off the top of my head, mainly because I don't get hung up on other peoples ignorance or troll attempts. By far and large this is an inclusive board that paralells attitudes displayed on social media. Cahills comments provoked outrage among hunters and shooters on facebook yesterday. To be fair the select committee report has shaken the fence pretty hard. Regular Joe A cat hunters and shooters can see that the recommendations would have a direct effect on them, and they are not happy. This isn't just a pissing contest between MSSA owners and police HQ, like we have experianced being on the thin end of the wedge. Everybody is on board and it is great to see.

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Our current crop of leaders have a history of this sort of thing however - produce a report or series of recommendations that are over the top hard on a particular group, and then look like the good guys when they revise the proposals back: you still lose privileges but you feel better because it could have been worse.... Think recreational Snapper catch reduction not too long ago (with no commercial catch reduction...)
Incremental change doesn't hurt as much as radical change but long term it achieves the same result.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

It is just that most if not all that participate on here even if they dont personally like or own one support your right to have one and use it. I for one am the second.

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And it's guys like you who we really appreciate. A lot

If the shoe was on the other foot and they were legislating bolt actions for "resembling" military sniper rifles because they can take out targets from a long way, we would be defending such preposterous claims. However, the police almost seem to be hinting at this for restrictions on importing .338 .50 cal, chassis systems etc.... (Watch this space)

And, I'd even jump in to the political fight in the future when laser beam guns like from star wars are under scrutiny. Even though I wouldn't personally procure them... Well, maybe!

The part that gets me from what Mr. Cahill has said was this: “He claims firearms which resemble military weapons and other semi-automatics pose a danger to the public."
I hate to be the bearer of bad news.........but all firearms can pose a danger to the public? Actually I might be wrong......the firearm doesn't pose any danger to the public......I would be more concerned about the fuck knuckle holding the gun. It might be easier to restrict the amount of fuck knuckles?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikee

Personally I think its just actually easier to appear to do something rather than actually do something.

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And cheaper, too. It's all part of the political smoke and mirrors. The Illusion of reality, or vice versa. It's what Cahill and co are doing.

I haven't been keeping up with his thread, but seeing what Cahill has been saying I'm going to take some time to write him a pretty firm letter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Savage1

I haven't been keeping up with his thread, but seeing what Cahill has been saying I'm going to take some time to write him a pretty firm letter.

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It's good to have someone on the other side of the fence. Even if if it does put you in no mans land. No doubt you see and hear more than general public, and must be tough having to sit on your hands.
I know the feeling of wanting to say something, but can't because of the shit storm it would create. Good luck with your firm words, just watch the fence your straddling doesn't flick up and give you a boot in the nuts

Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 9:06 p.m.
To: 'chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz' <chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz>
Subject: semi-automatic firearms comments

Mr Cahill,
You have certainly caused quite a stir amongst the 250,000 licensed firearms owners in the country and I am concerned with what can only be described as an agenda. You have risen through the ranks of police to Detective Inspector, you are not a stupid person. Firstly, you mislead NZ about the purchasing of ammunition in NZ. You stated that a firearms license is not required to purchase ammunition in this country. https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...-police-union/

More recently you again misled the country in regards to semi-automatic firearms in the country. Mr Cahill, semi-automatic firearms are NOT easily converted to fully automatic. If they were, then they would be all over the place in criminal hands. But you already knew that didn’t you? Apart from that, when a sample of a new semi auto firearm is assessed by PNHQ for approval, they check to make sure that it can't be readily converted to full auto. If it can, it won't be approved by the armorer.

If you actually believe that semis really are "easy to turn into full automatics" then you must also believe that PNHQ, specifically the armorer, are incompetent and are failing to do their own jobs. You either deliberately mislead NZ, or believe that police staff are incompetent. But given your history of passing off anecdotes as hard fact (sitting with hunters by the campfire, really? Get a grip), and just plucking numbers to suit your agenda lying is the most likely scenario.

I note that on the NZ police association web site mission/vison/values page https://www.policeassn.org.nz/about-...tives-/-vision it states: In the pursuit of our mission the Association will:
• Act with honesty and integrity
Your actions are not consistent with honest and integrity Mr Cahill. I am amazed that the police association is willing to accept the level of honesty and integrity from its president that you have demonstrated. To the point that if one of my soldiers had carried out similar behaviour, I would have charged them with bringing the service into disrepute.

As such, complaints have been laid to the NZ broadcasting standards authority, Radio New Zealand, the IPCA, the NZ Police association, and several MP’s. By many of us, the law abiding firearms license holders. The responsible people of society, deemed fit and proper to own firearms. You are persecuting the wrong people Mr Cahill, you should be focussing on actions that have an impact on the criminal elements of New Zealand, Not the law Abiding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 9:06 p.m.
To: 'chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz' <chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz>
Subject: semi-automatic firearms comments

Mr Cahill,
You have certainly caused quite a stir amongst the 250,000 licensed firearms owners in the country and I am concerned with what can only be described as an agenda. You have risen through the ranks of police to Detective Inspector, you are not a stupid person. Firstly, you mislead NZ about the purchasing of ammunition in NZ. You stated that a firearms license is not required to purchase ammunition in this country. https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...-police-union/

More recently you again misled the country in regards to semi-automatic firearms in the country. Mr Cahill, semi-automatic firearms are NOT easily converted to fully automatic. If they were, then they would be all over the place in criminal hands. But you already knew that didn’t you? Apart from that, when a sample of a new semi auto firearm is assessed by PNHQ for approval, they check to make sure that it can't be readily converted to full auto. If it can, it won't be approved by the armorer.

If you actually believe that semis really are "easy to turn into full automatics" then you must also believe that PNHQ, specifically the armorer, are incompetent and are failing to do their own jobs. You either deliberately mislead NZ, or believe that police staff are incompetent. But given your history of passing off anecdotes as hard fact (sitting with hunters by the campfire, really? Get a grip), and just plucking numbers to suit your agenda lying is the most likely scenario.

I note that on the NZ police association web site mission/vison/values page https://www.policeassn.org.nz/about-...tives-/-vision it states: In the pursuit of our mission the Association will:
•Act with honesty and integrity
Your actions are not consistent with honest and integrity Mr Cahill. I am amazed that the police association is willing to accept the level of honesty and integrity from its president that you have demonstrated. To the point that if one of my soldiers had carried out similar behaviour, I would have charged them with bringing the service into disrepute.

As such, complaints have been laid to the NZ broadcasting standards authority, Radio New Zealand, the IPCA, the NZ Police association, and several MP’s. By many of us, the law abiding firearms license holders. The responsible people of society, deemed fit and proper to own firearms. You are persecuting the wrong people Mr Cahill, you should be focussing on actions that have an impact on the criminal elements of New Zealand, Not the law Abiding.

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I wish I was that eloquent, really well written but a smackdown at the same time.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Sent: Friday, 21 April 2017 9:06 p.m.
To: 'chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz' <chris.cahill@policeassn.org.nz>
Subject: semi-automatic firearms commentso

Mr Cahill,
You have certainly caused quite a stir amongst the 250,000 licensed firearms owners in the country and I am concerned with what can only be described as an agenda. You have risen through the ranks of police to Detective Inspector, you are not a stupid person. Firstly, you mislead NZ about the purchasing of ammunition in NZ. You stated that a firearms license is not required to purchase ammunition in this country. https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...-police-union/

More recently you again misled the country in regards to semi-automatic firearms in the country. Mr Cahill, semi-automatic firearms are NOT easily converted to fully automatic. If they were, then they would be all over the place in criminal hands. But you already knew that didn’t you? Apart from that, when a sample of a new semi auto firearm is assessed by PNHQ for approval, they check to make sure that it can't be readily converted to full auto. If it can, it won't be approved by the armorer.

If you actually believe that semis really are "easy to turn into full automatics" then you must also believe that PNHQ, specifically the armorer, are incompetent and are failing to do their own jobs. You either deliberately mislead NZ, or believe that police staff are incompetent. But given your history of passing off anecdotes as hard fact (sitting with hunters by the campfire, really? Get a grip), and just plucking numbers to suit your agenda lying is the most likely scenario.

I note that on the NZ police association web site mission/vison/values page https://www.policeassn.org.nz/about-...tives-/-vision it states: In the pursuit of our mission the Association will:
• Act with honesty and integrity
Your actions are not consistent with honest and integrity Mr Cahill. I am amazed that the police association is willing to accept the level of honesty and integrity from its president that you have demonstrated. To the point that if one of my soldiers had carried out similar behaviour, I would have charged them with bringing the service into disrepute.

As such, complaints have been laid to the NZ broadcasting standards authority, Radio New Zealand, the IPCA, the NZ Police association, and several MP’s. By many of us, the law abiding firearms license holders. The responsible people of society, deemed fit and proper to own firearms. You are persecuting the wrong people Mr Cahill, you should be focussing on actions that have an impact on the criminal elements of New Zealand, Not the law Abiding.

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Has someone forward it to any "Media outlet" suggesting they do their job and find out what is really going on?

Chris Cahill is single handedly destroying what is left of the relationship that exists with firearm user groups and police. While it is clear that the police, and the police association, are seperate entities, the police association claims to represent over 8000 police officers (ergo do they claim to represent all police?), and it's head has been pushing an agenda with flat out lies. It is ok to have a different opinion, but when you are actively pushing said opinion, in public, with lies and sensationalism, you are bringing who you represent into disrepute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA

Has someone forward it to any "Media outlet" suggesting they do their job and find out what is really going on?

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I tried with my local rag but did not even get a reply to my email.

Any half decent journalist who had done even one night of research would tear him apart.

Just to attempt to dispel the myth that America is a "free for all" as far as firearms are concerned - a myth that has been debunked as much as it's been perpetuated. They have some pretty restrictive and ridiculous laws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WYspLerH0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eol8fvMfENc

Shit they have some cool toys.

Here is what Paula Bennett reply to my email I sent couple weeks back...
"
Thanks for taking the time to write and provide your feedback on Parliament’s report into firearms.

I’ve got a family full of recreational hunters and fishers so I understand where you are coming from. My focus is on seeing fewer guns in the hands of criminals, and not on unduly burdening responsible firearms owners.

After an initial look at the recommendations I can see several that probably won’t be progressed, but more work needs to be done. We are working through our response over the new few weeks and I will be getting in independent advisors from the hunting and sport shooting community to assist me.

I'll send you an update when we have some progress to report. I do appreciate your feedback and officials are going through the almost 300 emails we’ve received.

Regards,

Paula Bennett
Minister of Police"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA

Here is what Paula Bennett reply to my email I sent couple weeks back...
"
Thanks for taking the time to write and provide your feedback on Parliament’s report into firearms.

I’ve got a family full of recreational hunters and fishers so I understand where you are coming from. My focus is on seeing fewer guns in the hands of criminals, and not on unduly burdening responsible firearms owners.

After an initial look at the recommendations I can see several that probably won’t be progressed, but more work needs to be done. We are working through our response over the new few weeks and I will be getting in independent advisors from the hunting and sport shooting community to assist me.

I'll send you an update when we have some progress to report. I do appreciate your feedback and officials are going through the almost 300 emails we’ve received.

Regards,

Paula Bennett
Minister of Police"

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I got the same. What concerns me is the "almost 300 emails". Out of 240,000 licence holders, that's not much of a response.
Not enough people know about the proposed changes.
A bit of a rough workout: NZDA, and other shooting organisations......30,000 people?
Forums,only about 20-30 people/forum acting on it....200?
Facebook............maybe another 100?
This leaves a hell off a lot of people either not knowing, or sitting back thinking it won't happen. Of these people, most couldn't care about MSSAs being banned because it doesn't affect them. Some will accept that semi auto rifles and shotguns being changed category, because they only use them one weekend a year.
They'll try and divide and conquer each group, but I hope everyone backs each group for the long haul.

My challenge to all of you, is to let every licence holder know about this, and send emails etc to the relevant parties/people.
Almost 90% of holders don't know what's going on, once it's done, it's to late to try and claw it back.

As I said, those numbers are only a guesstimate. I could be well out, but the fact remains, only a very minute amount of affected people are reacting to this.

I did and do share everything i can or get from Facebook to email's, to my NZDA branch to my still not so accessible Pistol club and i wish more people would act towards it as well… I am sure many of us in this forum have expressed their concerns and opinions but we DO need more…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oraki

I got the same. What concerns me is the "almost 300 emails". Out of 240,000 licence holders, that's not much of a response.
Not enough people know about the proposed changes.
A bit of a rough workout: NZDA, and other shooting organisations......30,000 people?
Forums,only about 20-30 people/forum acting on it....200?
Facebook............maybe another 100?
This leaves a hell off a lot of people either not knowing, or sitting back thinking it won't happen. Of these people, most couldn't care about MSSAs being banned because it doesn't affect them. Some will accept that semi auto rifles and shotguns being changed category, because they only use them one weekend a year.
They'll try and divide and conquer each group, but I hope everyone backs each group for the long haul.

My challenge to all of you, is to let every licence holder know about this, and send emails etc to the relevant parties/people.
Almost 90% of holders don't know what's going on, once it's done, it's to late to try and claw it back.

As I said, those numbers are only a guesstimate. I could be well out, but the fact remains, only a very minute amount of affected people are reacting to this.

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it doesnt include the comments on her face book page, and comments by fish and game etc. Yes its a poor turnout, but i don think its QUITE as bad. I agree its probably due to people not knowing. Its pretty obvious to me its the government practicing the illusion of democracy. With the comments in the Australasian police document that is being shown around (before the select committee) and the UN stuff - the government is doing what it has to by law, and acknowledging commentary without committing in order to be perceived as listening. Ultimately doing the bare minimum, what is required by law, and carrying on with its own agenda.

Look how many times cahill has been caught out lying. No comment from the police association, or the ministers. IPCA couldn't care less, they fobbed me off, and the media doesn't care because is only shooters that are being affected, they dont see the bigger picture of abuse of power. And lets face it, the average person is a complete dumb arse, so they cant see he bigger picture, which means it wont attract hits/views/commentary that the media is after. ergo, media doesn't care

Have not kept up with the thread but is this Cahill guy elected?

Also is this been posted in the other room?

Stuart Nash in damage control mode. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...08580275872395

I think more people than we realise have registered rehired displeasure over this report. Seems some mp's are realizing just how many of us and our families there are. Hold the line, don't let these people convince you to vote for them

Thirty people posted there on his Facebook page.....ALL said he was wrong.......wonder if he's got the message:XD:
Keep at em girls and boys:thumbsup:

If you're in Hawke's Bay you should seriously consider heading along to Stewart Nash's public meeting to give feedback in person on the firearms enquiry reccomendations.

Thursday 27th April 7:30pm at Westshore Beach Inn.



https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...pier-shooters/

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...08580275872395

It appears the Waiuku Pistol Club has a really bright Secretary......very ably supported by a lawful respectful Committee. There has been not a word of dissent from them.....!

This guy owns firearms.....maybe he should not be labled a "fit and proper person"........
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...-useful-idiot/

Anyone know this turkey......?

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...-useful-idiot/

Apparently there appointing the independent advisors.
Who ever the independent advisor are they need to push for the status quo for law abiding firearm owners!

A truly independent advisor is not going to stay independent long once he is presented with the bullshit from the media, nzpa, and other human right gangsta supporters!

Is anybody on the board going to the Nash meeting tonight? Me and a couple others are going to do a mission over to see him if I knock off in time.

A comment someone made on facebook about Nash's weak response video to the meeting, seems fairly accurate to me.

This looks and smells to me like a very similar scenario to a corporate restructure...the people who will be affected know they are screwed from the proposal, but the company "goes through the motions" to give the illusion they care and that you have a chance of swaying the direction, and to satisfy the law, but in the end nothing will change...difference is that this is right before an election...a lot of piggies scrambling as the trough is slowly pulled away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

A comment someone made on facebook about Nash's weak response video to the meeting, seems fairly accurate to me.

This looks and smells to me like a very similar scenario to a corporate restructure...the people who will be affected know they are screwed from the proposal, but the company "goes through the motions" to give the illusion they care and that you have a chance of swaying the direction, and to satisfy the law, but in the end nothing will change...difference is that this is right before an election...a lot of piggies scrambling as the trough is slowly pulled away.

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the illusion of democracy. I made a very similar statement, they know whats going to happen and are doing the minimum required by law (which they will ignore) to give the illusion of democracy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

And if they do that (exactly what the Canadians tried) we just have to dig our toes in, refuse to comply and let the next batch of pollies scrap it in 5 years at hideous wastage of money, time and effort for absolutely zero gain (again exactly what the Canadians found).

What we all have to realise is that we aren't screwed, if we as the lawful sporting shooting community don't want this all we have to do is choose to not comply. There aren't enough courts to tackle it for one, not enough Police to do anything about it for two, and for three ask the Canadians - they ain't stupid and they know when they can't do something.

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Brave words until it's your door the cops kick in at 5.00am looking for the guns you haven't registered, shoot your dog and chuck stun grenades down the hallway.

Really worth risking for not registering a gun?

They don't have to do it more than a few times to make an example of a few people before the rest fall into line.

Fucked if I would risk that shit to own a gun I can't use, or even show anyone for fear of it happening to me. I'd rather buy another jetski or a faster motorbike.

You seriously post some absolute rubbish on this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

You seriously post some absolute rubbish on this forum.

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And what do you think will happen if the cops think you have unregistered guns?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by systolic

And what do you think will happen if the cops think you have unregistered guns?

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The same as they do with organised criminal gangs that have stacks of illegal firearms? The best part of fuck all?