Thread: Downloading / Reduced loads for youth or recoil sensitive shooters

do you know at what point you will risk a detonation from not enough powder?

I had it drilled into me when learning to reload that it was as dangerous as too much powder is all and im wondering if its actually a thing

Originally Posted by Bill999

do you know at what point you will risk a detonation from not enough powder?

I had it drilled into me when learning to reload that it was as dangerous as too much powder is all and im wondering if its actually a thing

Yes, it is a thing. But if using charge weights of IMR4198 and H4198 and Re7 as I've mentioned in this thread you will be well safe, if you wanted to reduce loads even further than these levels i wouldnt experiment at lower charge levels than I've mentioned, but would use Trailboss instead.

IMR 4198 apparently isn't sensitive to the position of the powder in the case when used with normal rifle primers, ie the case isn't full, and it's not bothered if the powder is all down close to the primer or not.

Ive learnt all this stuff over the last few years from a forum member on the 24hourcampfire by the name of Seafire. He's been playing with reduced loads like this in many cartridges for 25 odd years, he has disected Remingtons Factory reduced recoil youth loads for various cartridges, worked out the powder type and weighed charges etc, he has personally fired 10's of thousands of these reduced recoil rounds over the years for both off-season practice and varminting, its economical on powder, easy on the barrel, easier on the ears, and easy on the shoulder, barrel take way way longer to heat up. Lots of positives.

If you want to know any info for these reduced loads for various cartridges, simple google search "24hourcampfire Seafire reduced youth loads" and the cartridge, all his posts are on the 24hourcampfire site/forum, a wealth of knowledge. Lots of others have followed in his footsteps and have added to the conversations.

Originally Posted by The bomb

My main full power hunting load is 43g 2206h with 150g Cor lokt ,was thinking 35g might be a good starting point,work up in .5g increments ,no chrono so be guesswork mostly ,will go for most accurate ..dpt suppressed A7 with 16 in barrel.

Greetings @The bomb and All,
43 grains of AR2206H is pretty much the start load (Max is 45.5 grains) and would be giving around 2,500 fps in that barrel. 35 grains would be under 2,000 fps. 38 grains should give around 2,150 fps and 40 grains about 2,300 fps. Rather than working up in small increments it might be better to decide on a target velocity, pick a load to develop that and test it. Generally tha accuracy will get better as you work up but the .308 is such a well mannered cartridge that hard to get a bad load, especially when using AR2206H. This is why I fiddle with older cartridges rather than using the .308 for everything.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Bill999

do you know at what point you will risk a detonation from not enough powder?

I had it drilled into me when learning to reload that it was as dangerous as too much powder is all and im wondering if its actually a thing

From what I have read, the 4198 that GWH is using is the best for reduced loads and can be used downloaded in perfect safety. In my own case not having any 4198 I went for a slow bulky powder and a reasonable case fill

I THINK......and could well be wrong,the "phobia" if you like, comes about ,or should that be,started because a not full case with black powder is a HUGE no no..... definately a problem situation to get into....
trail boss has really made the making of a light load childsplay.....with safety.
personally,if I cannot find data in printed manual....or at the very least from two sources online,one being from manufacturer.....its a no go...
the lilgun load I spoke about earlier was interesting as very little data around for it in that usage(6.52x39mm) ,so getting someone TRUSTED to plug it into quickload gave me confidence to use it....

40g it is then,thanks for the info grandpa Mac,dont have a chrono so if accurate will go with that and call it good.

Originally Posted by GWH

I calculate it to be 7.3 lbs, but I dont believe that takes into account the effect of the suppressor, other than it increasing the weight of the rifle.

More importantly it was low enough for my skinny little 8 year old to handle no problem.

This rifle weighs 8.9 pounds with the B&C stock, 24" rem 700 barrel, DPT with 5x baffles and a fairly heavy Weaver Super slam scope, which obviously helps reduce the felt recoil.

Clearly he enjys using it. Winner.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Clearly he enjys using it. Winner.

Yeah he sure does, I'm quite happy that he can handle it and shoot it fairly well.

Just gotta put him in front of some goats or a deer now. He's been shooting a few rabbits with the 17hmr and the Hornet for the last year or so when i shoot the orchards.

What a valuable info filled post. Went through the same thought path, but with the component shortage (using 120grn nbts in 7-08) didn’t have much wriggle room to test. So my 8yr old lad started with a full load, suppressed and he was ok. The smaller projectiles and longer gun works suppressor make a huge difference. 9 now and has shot plenty of deer, pigs and 1 chamois. He is keener than I now.

Thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by Stag

What a valuable info filled post. Went through the same thought path, but with the component shortage (using 120grn nbts in 7-08) didn’t have much wriggle room to test. So my 8yr old lad started with a full load, suppressed and he was ok. The smaller projectiles and longer gun works suppressor make a huge difference. 9 now and has shot plenty of deer, pigs and 1 chamois. He is keener than I now.

Thanks for sharing

That's awesome.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

.. 90 gr HP's (which I have already) in the BSA 270 reduced loads, then I read that they need to go at 3400 + to stabilise so that wont work. ..

Short-for-calibre bullets don't need to go fast to stabilise. It's actually the opposite- long bullets where the twist rate is marginal may be half useable when driven hard. If a short bullet doesn't shoot, you can't blame the lack of velocity per se. The rifle may just hate that particular bullet or your loading isn't right.

Originally Posted by 6x47

Short-for-calibre bullets don't need to go fast to stabilise. It's actually the opposite- long bullets where the twist rate is marginal may be half useable when driven hard. If a short bullet doesn't shoot, you can't blame the lack of velocity per se. The rifle may just hate that particular bullet or your loading isn't right.

I have used the 90's before at full speed to turn goats into clotheslines and thought they might work reduced. I know that some rifles dont like them and so googled up on 'accuracy probs with the Sierra 90 gr hp'. From what I read they had to be run fast before they would group 3400 +,(writers wrote 'stabalise') this defeated the purpose of using them in a reduced load so I ended up loading 50 130gr Partitions at 2660 after load testing Hornady 130 spire points at 2630 and have 46 left after checking zero for hunting starting tomorrow afternoon with luck !

Yeh, their wrong use of terminology. Should have been "inaccurate" rather than "unstable".

Originally Posted by 6x47

Yeh, their wrong use of terminology. Should have been "inaccurate" rather than "unstable".

What causes them to be inaccurate if fired below a certain muzzle velocity ?