Anyone got much experience with FMJ on animals?
Printable View
Anyone got much experience with FMJ on animals?
As a general idea it's bad-very very bad, but sometimes certain ammo is ok on some sizes of animals.
What ammo do you have and what do you want to hunt?
My old man used ex army 303 ammo for donkeys years on Deer, Pigs and Goats........ worked ok for him.
When I was an apprentice I made a drill jig for him so he could drill out the tips of the projectiles and turn it into hollow points.
Cheers
Pete
The Mk VII .303 ammo would tumble ferociously, so I have read. Pretty base heavy with a cardboard or alloy tip.
Its very iffy particularly if you are planning to shoot goats with 223 FMJ. The normal thing to do I this situation is to pull all the projectiles out and replace them with cheap soft points keeping the same powder charge.
head shots you'll be right
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Your on to it Toby
Cheers
Pete
Unless you miss the fairly small brain and shoot it's jaw off, then it's bad, very bad.
um might depend on the velocity/range for the 55gr in an ar15? From what I read at high velocity the 55gr is meant to tumble on impact and split at the canular causing a bad wound just like a softpoint? so same effect as a soft point, but at longer ranges that doesnt happen, it just goes straight through.
That's how M193 performs inside like 100m, generally. If I had to I would use FMJ. Not really any point if you have any other option.
When I was a bit younger & had bugger all money ,the local gun smith (ex military trained) showed me how to file off the tip of FMJ ammo to perform as well as soft point sporting ammo.
The trick is to file the point down until the lead core shows ,you can drill a small hole in as well but don't really need to .
We use to get some wicked exit holes with it ,goats mainly & there was a lot of them around here . Cheap ammo to go out & bomb up a big mob & a lot of fun .
Nathan fosters website is a mine of info, he reckons that the norinco 55gr .223 would perform as well as hunting ammo something to do with the bullet design makes it work as Eugene Stoner intended
Stoner didn’t intend anything with .223. The cartridge was selected for the AR15 after research done at Aberdeen proving ground. Stoner/Sullivan's original intended cartridge was 7.62x51.
Have used 62gr SS109 on bunnies before, despite going through like a knife through butter (Still made them dead though) it often broke their legs even though the wound didn't connect with any bones.
I've used fmj through 303,223,7.62x39 on animals up to & including goats but wouldn't recommend it as a general hunting projectile, They killed ok with good placement but would prefer the sp or hollows. I also hollow pointed fmjs to make it cheaper & perform better & they worked well generally. I've never shot deer/pigs with them however.
Unfortunately he is prone to making claims on calibres he has not used or extensively experimented with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
I've shot foxes with FMJ that I loaded up for my Sako .222. Unless cleanly headshot, they would run around 80 metres, then drop. Sometimes, their livers would be hanging out of the exit hole. FMJ are only good if the intention is to sell the pelt.
I use to file the tips off the 6.5 ammo I use to use it was wicked how it opened up on animals I managed to get a sample projectile ive got still someware
Northdude: what ammo/bullet were you using? Could you put up a pix of the sample?
it was ex mil ammo I use to get real cheap rarely you see it come up on tm ill see if I can find the sample and get a pic
Remember our govt deer cullers were issued .303 jmf and they shot a few deer. Shot most of my life with FMJ ammo in .303 and 7.62x39mm. Had never really shot anything else until I won a national hunting competition with a No4 and FMJ. Won a Mod7 in some new 7mm08 cal for that, it kills deer to.
Some of the guys I have hunted with never shot Deer, Pigs, Whap or Thar with anything else but .303FMJ.
Of course a FMJ can and will kill animals...but why would you use FMJ when there are so many better options available?
Even if you have an endless or cheap supply, what's the point of running a greater risk of badly wounding or losing an animal, when a better suited projectile would kill it faster and more humanely in most situations!
+1, show respect for the animals you hunt and do your best to prevent fuck ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2308
Used 7.62 X 39 FMJ out of an AK for rabbits and hares many years ago before they were naughty MSSA rifles. We were quite surprised how shit ammo was at clean kills. Sights designed for shooting at people didn't help as wasn't precision shooting. They were normally running, but 30 shot Banana Mag did as you needed to turn them into a furball sometimes.
A carefully placed .22 win powerpoint out of scoped JW-15 seemed better or 870 12G but not half as much fun.
My best guess is say a modern SST would have say 3 x potency as a FMJ in same ammo, no data or anything to back up just an opinion. Unless you get into FMJ bullets tumbling, or hollowing out as mentioned above which I would have no idea on....
Interesting the post about filing them flat. Must do some testing.
Be careful, if you file off too much the lead will leave the barrel and the copper jacket could get stuck in the barrel. Next shot could be your last so check the barrel each shot you fire
Don't think that's quite how it will work mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
It has happened a lot, wether it has killed anyone is another question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2308
I have my grandfathers old rifle that has a fucked barrel from this happening.
My father just clipped the tips off with side cutters for close bush hunting-one day he took to much off.
Fmj is a misleading name as most jacketed projectiles are formed from "cups" of the jacket material-on fmj the remnants of the open top of the cup is at the back while soft point/hollow point/ballistic tip hunting ammo has it at the front.
So if you take to much off the front the high psi of the propellant could push the core out.
You used to be able to buy kits that took a "safe" amount off and created a hollow point.
I doubt they would be considered safe today.
there was an article in a nz gun mag where they took the projectile out and turned it round and shot it backwards apparently it worked well they were shooting goats with it
hey haven't forgotten the pic I moved a little while ago and havnt come across my recovered projectile collection amongst all my crap yet :)
It's a long time since I loaded with FMJ, but I'm pretty sure that the base was open, which is the reverse of a softpoint, where the copper covers the base. I can see a situation where the jacket could be left in the barrel if both ends are open.Quote:
Originally Posted by res
have a read of this, well worth the time. It speaks about the 223 overall and also what a FMJ does on impact etc
.223 Remington
I dont think, or I have seen no proof Stoner knew exactly what the effect would be. Could be wrong, so if someone has a URL Im interested in reading it. As a target guy I have not paid much attention to the wounding side of it, paper is paper. Anyway I spent some time digging in my info as I got interested in the Q and my books have quite a lot on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
The first commonly issued M16 had a 1 in 12 twist (lets ignore the 1 in 14 oopsie) and first, the 55gr FMJ. From what I have read that bullet only worked because it was only just stable and because of its very high velocity, 3200fps. So as long as you are above 2500fps the proper/real FMJ is going to split in 2 major pieces at the canalure plus fragment and do a lot of damage, it also reads that it needs to be not over-stabilized.
So shooting the proper 55grain FMJ in a 1 in 12 twist (typical?) 22inch barrelled boltie at a terminal velocity of no less than 2500fps might work very well (<250m?), Note by 2300fps the bullet is no longer snapping in half by the way from the photos/research I have seen.
There are also FMJs and FMJs. So Belmont sells what they call seconds, 556nato, 55FMJs at $28 (ish) per 50 strikes me they are cheap, seem pretty accurate from my target testing so could work really well in a bolt gun on an animal below 200 or maybe 250m. The FMJs in say barnual ammo? I have no idea if it breaks up the same, it might be stronger as its steel jacketed? best avoided I suspect. If hand loading for a bolt gun, well it looks like you want them as fast as possible to work better.
If you are going to have a go, let us know how you do, I for one am very interested if it works, especially as its cheap!
I tried some FMJ 223 on goats once because I don't like all the wastage from SP. It was only 20m away and took them straight down with vital shots, but the bleeding still wasted a lot of meat and from inspecting the wounds I saw how sensitive it was to shot placement. Have a go and judge for yourself. I don't use them now though, not much point since SP is still cheap, I just use the steel-case Russian stuff which is fine.
found them these are 6.5x55 that had the tips filed Attachment 34055Attachment 34056
Quite right. The construction is shown in a diagram here. If you file the top off an FMJ all that is holding the core into the copper jacket (Or full metal jacket) is the shoulder or taper at the front. With the availability of the SP or HP projectiles I would not suggest altering an FMJ into anything else. The risk of damage to the gun and your person is definitely there if it is done wrong. Note that of you take the tip off a FMJ then all you have is a metal tube open at both ends with a heavy core in the middle. The resistance of the rifling in the barrel pulls the hard metal exterior but if that distorts there is nothing pulling the core back hence where it leaves the possibility of having a jacket left in the barrel after the core is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps1124e457.jpg
Ive shot some 303s and 308s that had the nose pinched off with some pliers, the ballistics resembled a slinky. If you smacked a goat with them tho it was game over.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
Um, the chances of a jacket being left in the barrel is an almost comical idea to me, I have great difficulty believing it. Also I dont think lead is poured in but swagged (pressed) in.
The weakest bullets you are going to get will be cast lead, so taking off the copper jacket of an FMJ at the tip where it sees less force of the spin but leaving the main body shouldnt be an issue.
On top of that a good FMJ that is designed to break up by tumbling, well it just seems casually altering it to remove this capability, odd.
One of our club members shot a couple of deer recently with 62gr ADI projectiles and said it worked mint. Don't know any other details.
