Forum shooting challenge: The under 500 500

[Husky1600]

Somebody want to sell me a scope for under $100? Rifle cost me $385 6 months ago, so with the right scope will be under the $500. BUT, I wont be selling the rifle, like it too much.

[Ultimitsu]

You wrote all that when 1/4moa is completely irrelevant? Note the difference below.

I do not quite understand your reply. My point is that there is only quite limited amount work you can do to improve a rifle. Much of what could have been negatively affecting a rifle's accuracy cannot be fixed by a user (or even a gun smith). It has nothing to do with 1/4 MOA. You can easily have a 4 MOA gun which, after bedding, re-crowning and load development, still does 3 MOA.

Again, you seem to have drifted off topic. No one says you can't shoot your own 1MOA rifle. Just not in this contest. It appears you are simply not a contender. Rocky was a contender.

My point was simply that doing a lot of load development and reloading for an inaccurate 500 dollar rifle makes little sense.

The point of this challenge is essentially to prove that a cheap rifle can still shoot well, is it not? My point is that if it cost 10 hours of time and $200 of ammo to develop the right load just to make the old 500 dollar rifle to shoot 1 MOA, and from there to maintain 1 MOA you will always have to reload, then it becomes an expensive rifle (totally fine if the goal was to make this particular old rifle shoot for sentimental or nostalgia values). A brand new 1300 rifle that shoots factory ammo 1 MOA arguably makes better economic sense.

If a person did not already start with an accurate rifle that only cost 500 from some distant past, there are only three ways to succeed this challenge:

1. bargain ruthlessly and shamelessly, pay 500 dollars for a rifle with known accuracy that simply is worth more.

2. draw of luck, keep buying 500 dollar rifles until you hit one that is actually quite accurate and sold by an unsuspecting owner - which can happen with estate sales.

3. buy an average 500 dollar rifle and then spend a lot of time rework every part of the rifle: rework the trigger, true the action, lap the barrel, adjust head space (on top of re-crowning, bedding, load developments). Basically the sort of work usually only gunsmith can do properly. In my view unless luck is on your side even with all that work done you may not get a 1 MOA gun.

I have read a lot of accurazing stories and commentary in RimfireCentral about people's journey in accurasing their rifles. The general consensus is pretty much that the time and money spent improving a low end rifle is just not worth it. The only accurazing step that will give you some guaranteed gain (for a low end rifle) is barrel upgrade.

[Ultimitsu]

Somebody want to sell me a scope for under $100? Rifle cost me $385 6 months ago, so with the right scope will be under the $500. BUT, I wont be selling the rifle, like it too much.

Depending on what you want, a lot of people would be willing to just give you a 4x if that is all you need. A OK 3-9x40, such as low-mid end Hawke or Nikko Stirlling can be had for 100 if you look around. They are usually dependable enough with nothing else going for them. Just stay away from Ranger.

[Tussock]

@Ultimitsu why did you even post that? All the stuff you keep saying about what people and rifles will do, you are making up. This is not Rimfire central.

These rifles areare not junk. They are old, but they were mostly hand made by craftsman. More work went into the bolt than your average rimfire.

I'm going to be gentle here if I can. Most of what you learned on Rimfire central was a form of cosplay. That stuff is all make believe. Like fairies and unicorns. It's real, but it exists only in the hearts and minds of Rimfire central members. It is really not appropriate to mention it outside Rimfire central.

[Tussock]

You get a score of 5 then.

Simple rule. To be champ you must officially enter and your rifle is for sale to others who have officially entered. Rifle trading will be in person at the end of official events.

If you just want to shoot your cheapest rifle and post a score do that.

[gadgetman]

3. buy an average 500 dollar rifle and then spend a lot of time rework every part of the rifle: rework the trigger, true the action, lap the barrel, adjust head space (on top of re-crowning, bedding, load developments). Basically the sort of work usually only gunsmith can do properly. In my view unless luck is on your side even with all that work done you may not get a 1 MOA gun.

I've done this with a couple $450 rifles. One currently shoots consistent 13mm three shot groups at 100m, same pattern/position. Unfortunately it is only a 223 and non dialling scope.

[Tussock]

Ok I had a little practice with the swede yesterday, 5 shots at 100, gave a 4 inch group above the 2 inch circle which is impossible to see with open sights anyhow.
I have a 12 in gong so used that for the other ranges.
200, hit 300, hit 400 miss, miss, hit. No more ammo.
Even painted bright red that gong was hard to see at 400 and is way smaller than the front post, at 500 it will be damn near invisible. Some optics are gonna be needed. It was fun though.
I might try it with something more pricey and scoped next time.

This should explain the point of this exercise. A 4" group at 100m with open sights, unable to see the 400m target, but dead deer all the way to 300m
@Ultimitsu stop fixating on 1/4 or MOA in general. You realize a 2MOA rifle will score 19 in this competition while a 1/4MOA rifle only gets 22?

[Tentman]

All this challenge requires is to have a go within the rules.

If you are a consistent shooter and have a good knowlege of ballistics (and understand basic statistics) a good score is possible with a rifle of ordinary hunting accuracy - I like about 40mm at 100M) . My F class rifle will group at 10mm at 100M but a first shot hit at a 10" target at 400 is not much less likey than if I was using a hunting rifle. Try doing a bit of stats learning of you don't understand that.

[Pete_D]

This should explain the point of this exercise. A 4" group at 100m with open sights, unable to see the 400m target, but dead deer all the way to 300m
@Ultimitsu stop fixating on 1/4 or MOA in general. You realize a 2MOA rifle will score 19 in this competition while a 1/4MOA rifle only gets 22?

Sorry maths is not my strong point - I re-read the scoring system and is the:
"5 shot 100m group 1 point for every 1/4" under 2"
Is that 1 point awarded for each shot under 2 inches or the whole 5 shot group ? Just wondered since you said a 2 MOA gun scores 19 and I make it 15 ?

[gadgetman]

Sorry maths is not my strong point - I re-read the scoring system and is the:
"5 shot 100m group 1 point for every 1/4" under 2"
Is that 1 point awarded for each shot under 2 inches or the whole 5 shot group ? Just wondered since you said a 2 MOA gun scores 19 and I make it 15 ?

And 2moa at 100m is 2.29"/58.2mm.

1moa @ 100y = 1.047"

1y = 0.9411m

[Tussock]

Sorry maths is not my strong point - I re-read the scoring system and is the:
"5 shot 100m group 1 point for every 1/4" under 2"
Is that 1 point awarded for each shot under 2 inches or the whole 5 shot group ? Just wondered since you said a 2 MOA gun scores 19 and I make it 15 ?

It is 15. This is what happens when I do math in my head while assembling irrigation parts at the same time I don't add good.

[Pete_D]

It is 15. This is what happens when I do math in my head while assembling irrigation parts at the same time.

You should worry if I'm better than Maths than you ! it must have been the number of fingers I had available at the keyboard vs you .

[Tussock]

You should worry if I'm better than Maths than you ! it must have been the number of fingers I had available at the keyboard vs you .

Everything I do is in a math heavy field but I could not work at a dairy because I can't make change

[Tentman]

All this challenge requires is to have a go within the rules.

If you are a consistent shooter and have a good knowlege of ballistics (and understand basic statistics) a good score is possible with a rifle of ordinary hunting accuracy - I like about 40mm at 100M) . My F class rifle will group at 10mm at 100M but a first shot hit at a 10" target at 400 is not much less likey than if I was using a hunting rifle. Try doing a bit of stats learning of you don't understand that.

[Ultimitsu]

@Ultimitsu why did you even post that? All the stuff you keep saying about what people and rifles will do, you are making up. This is not Rimfire central.

These rifles areare not junk. They are old, but they were mostly hand made by craftsman. More work went into the bolt than your average rimfire.

I'm going to be gentle here if I can. Most of what you learned on Rimfire central was a form of cosplay. That stuff is all make believe. Like fairies and unicorns. It's real, but it exists only in the hearts and minds of Rimfire central members. It is really not appropriate to mention it outside Rimfire central.

I am not sure why you would rubbish Rimfire Central. Look at the size:
* This forum - Threads: 47,083, Posts: 782,521, Members: 7,998
* Rimfire Central - Threads: 473,223, Posts: 5,000,803, Members: 154,084

Rimfire Central is generally speaking a very respected forum, well run and well moderated. I mention RC because the RC has a lot of people tinkering with rifles about the price range referred to in this thread. If you go to Snipers Hide - a long ranger shooter forum - people there tend to talk about 5k rifles and 5k scopes.

I am not sure why you think somehow centre fire rifles are "mostly hand made by craftsman" with "More work went into the bolt than your average rimfire." The average rimfire that people over at RC play with are CZ and Ruger, they both between 600 to 900 here in NZ. many people there have been long term Anschutz class users.

Check out a review for a typical low-end centre fire gun, the infamous Remington 770: https://www.huntinggearguy.com/rifle...on-770-review/

Yeah.. I think CS 453 has more work gone into its trigger than Remington has put into the whole gun.