How about a rifle and scope bought for that price in 1974?
Printable View
How about a rifle and scope bought for that price in 1974?
maybe the emphasis should be on purchase.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
i mean what say you had a scoped tackdriver handed down to you .....you could spend $499 on i dunno fluffy dice.
e.g . i have an 8mm that cost me nothing so i could put a half decent scope on it and still come in under budget but thats not fair
Sorry Dundee your gun is worth much more than $500.00 so you’re out.
You can use a Sako if you can get one for less than $500 with optics:D Ask my wife. I am literally sitting here laughing as I picture you and @Kiwi Greg looking down the barrel of a $400 rifle. Greg might throw up in his mouth a bit and need to go and lie in a pile of 32" premium grade truck axles recover:DQuote:
Originally Posted by 7mmsaum
This is the idea though, so I hope you guys have a go. Get the guys with experience to do what the newbies have to. If it goes well there should be a pile of respectable rifles for all those guys looking for their first bang stick.
All going well it will be a list of tricks to teach old dogs new tricks.
This is because, as @Rich007 stated, you can only imagine 22 points:D I would say the record holder will sit in the mid to low teens for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
Can't see why not, but if its obviously too flash we will take the piss. I'm curious to know what $500 bought you in 1974?Quote:
Originally Posted by nor-west
@scotty has a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
In 1978 I bought my first centrefire, a Tikka M55 in 308. With a Nikko Sterling Gold Crown 2.5x I had change from $400. Shot lights out even compared with the best factory sporters money can buy now. Wish I'd kept it.
Might change my mind (re the M70 6.5x55) and see if I can use the rifle I bought recently for my son - a Savage 223 with 1:9 barrel, its a blued synthetic and cost me $400. Fairly ugly but handy enough and it shoots pretty good, trigger is decent too. Might have to rescope it as it has a cheapy Minox on it, were they called a ZA ?? But it was $180 as I recall
I've seen these Savage/Stevens rifles embarrass a hell of a lot of the fancy pants/gay boy stuff on range shoots and they work just fine for hunting.
Might be able to find something for this in this section even at nz dollar rates :thumbsup:
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.co...=17&index=view
Thinks this might do the trick https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.co...5877&saletype=
Just need to buy it for £80.00:)
Right where do we get started? I have 200 yard and 500 yard set up on farm? Guess we going to need a forum member as a witness?
Sako 270 finnbear with a 2-7 Leupold scope 2nd hand obviously also a BSA 308 with 2-7 Kahles also not new but could and still shoot shoot very well. Probably a couple of grand for either now so wouldn't be fair really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
I'm keen - got a Tikka that I bought back in 1976, $415 with scope. Or a Husky 8x57 that I bought recently that shoots amazingly well with an old Kahles 4x I had in the cupboard for a few years. Or a Husky 30.06 that I could fit an Outdoor optics scope that came as part of a deal. Or a Rem 788 in 22.250, with a red dot that I've swapped out for another scope from the cupboard. somebody point me in the right direction and I'll give it an honest attempt .
Note this is an honor based exercise. If you must cheat, you will live and shame and know yourself to be ergi (unmanned) and forfeit any chance of entering Valhalla. If found out a glove will be nailed to the door of the nearest public hall with your name written on it so that all will know that your word is of no value. The knowledge that you deceived your fellow forum members will eat at you night and day and you will be without sleep. Food will lose its flavor. Women will shun you. Children will cry in your presence. The sun will have no warmth. You will be forced to confess your sins to your fellow forum members and trek to Mt Alexander then descend to the North and throw your rifle into Three Duck lake, and thus be cleansed of shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
So, probably best to just be honest.
Just draw a 10" circle on a piece of paper and paint it with a spray can. Put a ruler next to it, take a photo and post it here, for each target.
GPS ranges will be accepted if you don't have a range finder.
No bugger beleives my range finder or .22 but I'll give it a crack and have witness!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
Better to be safe than sorry:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...dce4078abbb266
This may go well below the buy now
I think you should add a proviso that the Finnish autocross drivers have which is:
If someone offers to buy it from you for $500 you have to sell it to them!
That will take out the “I paid $500 for it back in ‘53 so therefore it’s eligible,” well, it is, as long as you don’t mind selling it for $500!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
....and whats to stop someone selling a rifle to a ‘mate’ that’s a fancy pants rifle/scope combo for five hundy.... I know honour based and all. Quite a curse you put out though Tussock..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're not talking about hunting rifles are you ?
The most likely gun to score well would be an old fullbore target rifle with aperture sights like the Omark 44 mentioned above or a Parker Hale.
There could also be a few almost unsaleable wildcats around with a huge amount spent on the build, yet virtually zero resale value now, that offer fair accuracy potential if you can handle the reloading set up.
If you allow handloading then the amount spent on that will be more than the rifle.
The requirement for an off the scale pricing really make this complicated and easy to criticise.
I suggest you change the rules to $1000 and must use factory ammo but can use as much as you like setting up practising and in repeated attempts to get a score. Also tighten up that the targets have to be shot same day and first shot only, a bit like Norway's challenge. Perhaps require all on one piece of paper like Gimp's challenge.
In my long history of sporting events of many kinds, as well as other activities I have yet to find anything people found hard to criticize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
No, the rule and limitations are clearly stated. If someone wants to spend 6 months and $1000 hand loading .270 bullets into a loosed bored 6.5 they re-chambered on a toolshed lathe in their garage then that should keep us all entertained for a while.
The prize is respect. If you want to fake your targets I have been clear about the consequences. If you want to do a bogus $500 deal with your mate so you can shoot your $4000 LR rig, then by default, the prize is revoked because there will be no respect on offer.
If someone buys an old target rifle and uses aperture sights, then that will open a few peoples eyes and is worthy of respect.
If someone does this with a $300 Marlin .243 or a sporterised M98 .308, they are going to get bonus respect.
The competition is very tough, and after you sell the rifle again, very cheap.
This is a bit of fun. Just relax mate:thumbsup:
I think its a good idea to make the rule that if you enter, you must be willing to sell the rifle for $500.
If you won't sell it then your entry is invalid. The idea that you can use an expensive rifle that you somehow acquired for cheap / free is imo, not really in the spirit of the competition.
Finnish Autocross of shooting. I think this is sensible. You will end up with a pool of rifles that circulate and it will be all about the shooting just like Finnish autocross is all about the driving.
Must be a clause so new guys don't lost their prized $400 rifle.
The 5 shot group requires a 1/4 MOA gun. Even expensive custom guns do not guarantee that. see this custom gun maker, only guanrantee 3 shots group 1/4 MOA, and you must use his $4 USD custom ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
A consistent 1 MOA gun would get you 18 points, that is pretty good if you can do it in 500. Load development is time consuming and costly. There is a good reason why most people (who have jobs) do not bother do load development unless the gun is worth it in the first place.
Regarding your last point. I suppose people have differing views on whether "guns shoot like arse" - "can be made to shoot". I am not so convinced. Most cheap and inaccurate guns are inherently inaccurate. While you can improve certain aspects to make it shoot a little better such as bedding and re-crowning. You cannot do anything about most aspects of the gun that made it inaccurate, such as -
* lower quality materials used for the action and barrel,
* low quality bore and rifling resulting from low quality craftsmanship and tools,
* imprecision of stamped actions,
* thinly made actions that have higher amount of flex,
* cheaply joined barrel and action (I remember reading reviews about one Remington rifle which had the barrel pressed into the action),
* off-centre action and barrel resulting from excess tolerance,
* excess tolerance in the headspace, and
* triggers designed/made to have 6-pound pull with a 3/4 inch of creep and no clear or consistent point of let-off.
And we are not even talking about rifling wear, fouling, pitting, rust and physical damage that comes with age.
(~awaits for someone to tell me that they got a beautiful xxx rifle from 1939 which had stamped action and pressed pencil barrel that had gone through WWII but still shoots like a laser)
Can you come up with a modified scoring system for open sight entry's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
I'm liking this idea. I have three cheap rifles that all cost me $400-$450. Maybe I could make my own brakes.
The range I shoot at only goes to 100m though.
Going to be a cheap scope to go on top then :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
While I mostly agree with your comment, im not so sure about this part. I would argue that most people simply don't reload, and put simply are intimidated by it. The learning curve + the cost barriers to entry put all but the die-hard shooters off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimitsu
I think it has nothing to do with being employed or not. My observations are that most people who reload are enthusiasts who probably spend more money on reloading gear, equipment & components, and more time actually shooting than the vast majority of those who don't reload.
Its not a "poor mans" pursuit, its an enthusiasts and perfectionists pursuit.
Two of those were scoped for that price, one a Weaver the other a Tasco something. They hold zero. The other had rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
I am the ultimate cheap bugger after all.
I would say that some people "simply don't reload, and put simply are intimidated by it". I also agree that "the learning curve + the cost barriers to entry" stops many. Where we probably differ is that I think for many people, myself included, the time cost of reloading is too high. People who have full time job and a family often have difficulty finding time for their own hobbies. I barely find enough time to shoot. So even if I did reload for my best guns, I will still not reload for a sub-$500 gun that does at best 1 MOA using reloaded ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
I would rather just use gun that shoot 1 MOA with factory ammo - it is not like anyone on this forum dont already have one....
You wrote all that when 1/4moa is completely irrelevant? Note the difference below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimitsu
Finnish Autocross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18XkQFNNJkI
F1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHSUp7msCIE
The prize is larger and frankly a second hand target rifle with decent aperture sights beats an old Tasco anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_D
Kiwi Greg you have a ways to go, but you are coming around to the concept:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
Started out reloading as a student with a lee kit and free brass and projectiles off the forum. Some old powder (Cooked 2209?) and some fired factory brass with some random projectiles (I have a big bag if someone has calipers) is not expensive right? You are right Chris, it is about range time not money.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
Again, you seem to have drifted off topic. No one says you can't shoot your own 1MOA rifle. Just not in this contest. It appears you are simply not a contender. Rocky was a contender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimitsu
Bonus respect if your preparation is in the form of a montage to Eye of the Tiger
As this is still a bit of money and rifles are for forced sale in this new Kiwi riflecross event then I suggest teams are acceptable. This opens up the possibility of more backyard gunsmithing. People act like this has never been done before. My first few rifles relied heavily on the generosity and ingenuity of forum members in their sheds and reloading rooms.
What’s the timeline for this? Good idea
I think the perception of what something costs is evident with buying ammo vs rolling your own. It's like going on a package holiday with all you can eat buffets. You know that you are paying for it somewhere, but the perception is that it's free food and drinks. :thumbsup: Once you have forked out for some reloading components and yes that can get pricey if you wish. You quickly get over that and for a while it feels like free ammo but buying factory ammo, man that "feels" expensive.
I certainly shoot more since rolling my own! Factory ammo man :O_O: yep not something you would go shooting every weekend.
When I was home I used to sight in and then the round counts were only for deer. Now it’s himmm let’s See what this recipe dose:thumbsup:
My reloading gear cost $150 off trademe and I shot a lot of bug holes with the ammo. Say you get the cheapest full metal jacket projectiles imaginable and they are good and long. You can seat them way past mag length and go looking for the lands, then single load the rifle. This is the kind of thing that will get an ancient and possibly weirdly specced old shooter shooting. Load development does not mean expensive components, it means you can tune the components you have.
Endless. I went out tonight to range up a permanent riflecross course but ran out of light due to doing some work on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbop
All going well we will end up with about 5 or 6 hoary old shooters circulating and have a round at a forum shoot.
@Carlsen Highway I want you on my team. I will call windage and elevation. No one shoots a 6lb trigger with a 1/2" of creep better.
Well I cant wait to get home and make a start on at least a couple of possible contenders.
Dont be put off by those who seek to maintain the snob value of their supposedly finely machined and exquistily finished rifles that may or may not (thats what scares them) shoot MOA.
There are actually very few really low quality centrefire hunting rifles (both Savage and Remmington have managed it in the axis and 783) and ALL manufacturers rifles follow the laws of statistics, thier accuracy will lie somewhere on a bell curve, a few horrible, most ok and a few exceptional. All the expensive stuff does is move the curve along a bit.
By "forum shoot" do you mean we going to be able to shoot this at the "Big Bore" shoot??
@Tussock Here is a solution
This competition requires honesty and is there for personal challenge. Here are points to ponder....
-) This competition is a personal competition. there are no tangible prizes so there should be little or no reason for anyone with the qualities of a real kiwi to need to cheat. (That includes male and female shooters)
-) If anyone feels the need to buy or sell their rifle for more than $500 then that says more about them than anything else that could be written or implied. - If they have to bend or break the rules to show how skilled they are then they clearly already know the truth of the matter.
-) Any cheating on value, range or other dishonest behavior, and all prizes are automatically forfeit. No one else needs to know if their rifle is truly worth the $500 they claim. The fact that they themselves are not worthy of the respect is enough. The shame will burn their souls and f it does not, then they have no soul.
-) Value of any rifle is subjective. My old Husky would be pretty close to $500 give or take if it was to be sold, but as it has been with me over 30 years, it will never be sold as it is worth more to me than it will ever be to anyone else. Many of these rifles are.
Most importantly this is a proper riflemans challenge and I love it. It sets a personal goal for each shooter to try.It is a test of the skill of the shooter as much as it is the rifle. And a personal test of ones own honest to themselves.
I will be trying this. And mainly to prove to myself that it can be done. Whether anyone else claims it was done with their rifle and wether it is worth more or less, that matters not to me. The only thing that matters is that I know that I can do it myself.
Here is another challenge-) Its called the GOLF challenge. You stand at a range and tee off with a golf ball. The person on the day who can then hit the golf ball at the largest distance wins. (Do you tee off close to make it easier to hit and risk someone making a longer shot or do you tee off hard and long and hope that you dont miss?)
You might need an actual golf course to see the ball, but I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
Also, your list is excellent. It is a valid point. If you specify your rifle is not for sale, then it is fair to doubt its value is less than $500, but by all means have a go. Where as to truly honor the rules, the rifle scope combo must be permanently for sale for $500, though by gentleman's agreement it should be kept within the pool of competitors. No one buys a Finnish autocross car for their daily driver, they all stay in the racing pool.
Could do, but that is not my event. I have been out this morning ranging up a fixed range with 15-20 stations:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
Only found a 100m range so far but it is sweet.
This is a challenge to all, and I expect it might open a few peoples eyes about where the value lies in a rifle. (Or it might not, we will see...)
My humble Winchester 70 30-06 was bought for $400 and it might be a contender. But I think a lot of fun would be to dig up something as cheap as you can and make it work. I can see some Swedish Mausers, Mosin Nagants and old .303's showing up. I have a feeling someone it going to surprise us with what SKS can do if you treat it right...
I am in.