Thread: The future of Rifle Ranges.

Originally Posted by Doghead

I may have missed it (or forgotten) - BUT has anybody being injured or killed on a rifle range, OR killed/injured by a stray bullet orginating from a rifle range.

IF NOT - then someone has clearly missed the basic cost-benefit analysis.

No they haven't. License holders and clubs pay. If they can't they shut down. That's the goal.

Originally Posted by jackson21

Could you reduce your danger area on ranges by use of baffling the firing zone to reduce the cone of fire?

Obviously this would be expensive and right pain but otherwise it seems we have had an idealogy shift to ban shooting in NZ largely through making too expensive to maintain licenses and nowhere to shoot.

For the people who say "I just hunt" so will be fine, how these things work is the pick off one group, then they come for the next.

Im sure Timaru fellas have done just that using shipping containers

Originally Posted by Doghead

I may have missed it (or forgotten) - BUT has anybody being injured or killed on a rifle range, OR killed/injured by a stray bullet orginating from a rifle range.

IF NOT - then someone has clearly missed the basic cost-benefit analysis.

I believe one fella was killed on NZDF range many many years back and I believe it was some obscure oldschool cartridge,something like a .50 cal buffalo rifle. so not a common occurance.

We are going through the process here in wairoa will have a 200m rifle range dtl range and hopefully pistol. Just finalizing the paper work. We have been working with Mike spray and Doug puke

Had a few injuries on ranges due to failures, bore plugs and the like and a few near misses with ricochet etc, but by and large ranges are very safe places. A recent occurrence was an incursion by a pig hunter who biffed the dogs over the fence marked with danger no entry signs and wandered onto the range - not much you can do about that sort of stupidity...

You don't I believe need an approved range for "sighting in". Correct me if I'm wrong. Its bin a while since I read the new regs but I believe they only apply to "formal" ranges -the main part of the legal definition of "formal" being around organised membership (Clubs) or public use, and targets being left in place over night, running events etc. If you are just a small group of 2-3 mates and you get together to sight your rifles in (load testing) any sensible gully or big hillside will do. Yes you need legal access on private land. That's a prob in big smokes but that is also why clubs with ranges exist. The well established big city ranges are well and truly across the new requirements.

Its the little clubs in small towns and rural NZ that have the compliance and cost problem. They also often have membership and survival-as-clubs problems. Frankly some would be better off disbanding as an organization with membership etc, stop calling where they shoot a range, and just come together as mates in 2s and 3s to "sight in". Word of mouth will accommodate youngsters starting out needing to "sight in" also. Oh, and don't leave targets up overnight. Probably sell the clubhouse off too, or put some haybales in it. No more AGMs, Incorporated Society Reporting, Club Accounts & Minutes, Elections or AGMs. Just shooting and reloading and hunting. Of course if you love your Club you will get stuck into the now necessary compliance.

My "sighting in" and load dev is done using 6" steel gongs rated for 30 cal @100m. I can hang them on any wire fence. A large sheet of appliance box cardboard held in place with a couple of electric fence standards tells me where I'm missing lol. Or how I'm grouping. Eminently portable. Great with a buddy or two. Can go anywhere I have permission and is sensibly safe to shoot. I shoot same as I do hunting, off sticks, a strainer post, leaning on a tree or off the bonnet of mates truck (don't like scratching mine)

Having said that, I also belong to 3 shooting clubs with 100m, 220m and 700m formal registered ranges, Pistol and NZDA, all with organised shoots. Sometimes tho life is more simple on your own.

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

The biggest problem is you have to have a citified RO on the range every time someone wants to shoot.
Which is why we had so many do it so I can go to the range myself to check my rifle and shoot out to 700M.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

That is NZDA making an interpretation there as to the level of training for an Officer on Duty. I understand to run a NZDA competition they want their people to be RO qualified (and good on them) but the Police minimum requirement for an Officer on Duty is far less.
For example there is talk (GAC, DoC, Police) of DoC putting in place 100m ranges on DoC administered land. To be an officer on duty on these ranges, the plan is you go online read something and then tick the box that you understood it - RO qualified.

Originally Posted by Jhon

You don't I believe need an approved range for "sighting in". Correct me if I'm wrong. Its bin a while since I read the new regs but I believe they only apply to "formal" ranges -the main part of the legal definition of "formal" being around organised membership (Clubs) or public use, and targets being left in place over night, running events etc. If you are just a small group of 2-3 mates and you get together to sight your rifles in (load testing) any sensible gully or big hillside will do. Yes you need legal access on private land. That's a prob in big smokes but that is also why clubs with ranges exist. The well established big city ranges are well and truly across the new requirements.

Its the little clubs in small towns and rural NZ that have the compliance and cost problem. They also often have membership and survival-as-clubs problems. Frankly some would be better off disbanding as an organization with membership etc, stop calling where they shoot a range, and just come together as mates in 2s and 3s to "sight in". Word of mouth will accommodate youngsters starting out needing to "sight in" also. Oh, and don't leave targets up overnight. Probably sell the clubhouse off too, or put some haybales in it. No more AGMs, Incorporated Society Reporting, Club Accounts & Minutes, Elections or AGMs. Just shooting and reloading and hunting. Of course if you love your Club you will get stuck into the now necessary compliance.

My "sighting in" and load dev is done using 6" steel gongs rated for 30 cal @100m. I can hang them on any wire fence. A large sheet of appliance box cardboard held in place with a couple of electric fence standards tells me where I'm missing lol. Or how I'm grouping. Eminently portable. Great with a buddy or two. Can go anywhere I have permission and is sensibly safe to shoot. I shoot same as I do hunting, off sticks, a strainer post, leaning on a tree or off the bonnet of mates truck (don't like scratching mine)

Having said that, I also belong to 3 shooting clubs with 100m, 220m and 700m formal registered ranges, Pistol and NZDA, all with organised shoots. Sometimes tho life is more simple on your own.

Yes it's the small rural clubs that face extinction they often started as people got sick of lugging hay bales, traps,and steel targets from place to place so arranges somewhere local on a farm to set up. It grows over the years and formally becomes a club to "regulate activities and membership". It becomes one if the recreational activities and social centres for it's local community like a rugby club or gold club. It's members are enthusiastic but lack the skills and time required to navigate and complete the process, find people willing to be certified as ros or take committee positions in this "new utopia" The future looks bleak in many ways.

Greetings Again All,
Hawkes Bay was well served while the Roy's Hill range was open. This closed in the 1990's and rifle range provision has been patchy in HB since. All the mounds and the markers gallery seem to still be in place but there were concerns about the back stop from memory. Houses are creeping over the hill not far from the butts which has likely sealed the fate of the range.
The areas where ranges are likely to survive have multiple clubs on the same site with Taupo and Tokoroa being examples I have visited. I refuse to believe that a decent shooting complex can not be achieved in HB but it is likely to take cooperation of all the clubs and likely input from the local Councils. I see no sign of that yet. Perhaps the range closures may change this. Lets hope so.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Im sure Timaru fellas have done just that using shipping containers

Yip.
20ft as a side walls, then 40ft Ontop. Shooting under the 40ft. 40ft is filled with bales of old tires and a standoff cover of ply.
I'll see if I can find my original design for it...


Found it, half way down this page -
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....6/index6.html#


I haven't been involved for 5 years (moved away) so not sure where they are at now.

Originally Posted by OGM

I agree with the gist of what you are saying, however, some of these clubs are on public land.

Furthermore, the thing about a mate (or few) is a big part of their problem in some cases. That's what they are already. They are not open to others to join their little clique or elitist shooting club. As a consequence they are left with next to no local support base. They could disappear tomorrow and noone will miss them because we have no reason to.

Its my call these sort won't last much longer where they are, and should plan to move their activities to private land where they belong.

The "word of mouth" will only benefit the clubs who are already open to others and want to ensure their longevity by having as many members as possible. The same members who will have to dig into their pocket to come up with a share of the costs and responsibility for all this new stuff.

Greetings @OMG and all,
Well put. The aim should be to have a certified range to shoot on rather than trying to skirt around the law. The use of a non range area is well set out in the Range Manual and there are danger area and backstop requirements that need to be complied with. Just hanging a gong on a fence does NOT cut it. Hunters especially can be a pretty isolationist bunch but this is somewhere that cooperation and a group approach is needed.
GPM.

Originally Posted by country cuts

We are going through the process here in wairoa will have a 200m rifle range dtl range and hopefully pistol. Just finalizing the paper work. We have been working with Mike spray and Doug puke

Great effort @country cuts keep us posted and we will be down for a shoot once up and running

Originally Posted by country cuts

We are going through the process here in wairoa will have a 200m rifle range dtl range and hopefully pistol. Just finalizing the paper work. We have been working with Mike spray and Doug puke

Yes well done.
If Wairoa, with it's tiny population, can get their act together then the Napier Hastings area with ten times the population should be able to.
Regards Grandpamac.

Regarding the "officer on duty" thing for casual use.

It really does not need to be as complex as most guys are making it.

HVNZDA have been running a system for several years where we have an online "safe shooting" course. It basically checks knowledge of the range standing orders. We have made it a pre-requisite to getting a gate access fob. It has been mentioned as a working system at NZDA conferences, and the police have spoken about it in the range certification training courses.

In practical terms, if multiple people arrive to shoot on the range, they agree between themselves who will act as range officer. When that person leaves, he/she hands responsibility over to another person.

Police minimum requirement is that the OD has knowledge of the 12 points mentioned in the range manual. If your online course or whatever else you choose to implement covers that you should be fine.

When we run large/formal events, we have qualified/warranted ROs on duty. Hope that makes sense.

Obviously different NZDA ranges have different rules. Some do not allow casual shooting...

Originally Posted by ebf

Regarding the "officer on duty" thing for casual use.

It really does not need to be as complex as most guys are making it.

HVNZDA have been running a system for several years where we have an online "safe shooting" course. It basically checks knowledge of the range standing orders. We have made it a pre-requisite to getting a gate access fob. It has been mentioned as a working system at NZDA conferences, and the police have spoken about it in the range certification training courses.

In practical terms, if multiple people arrive to shoot on the range, they agree between themselves who will act as range officer. When that person leaves, he/she hands responsibility over to another person.

Police minimum requirement is that the OD has knowledge of the 12 points mentioned in the range manual. If your online course or whatever else you choose to implement covers that you should be fine.

When we run large/formal events, we have qualified/warranted ROs on duty. Hope that makes sense.

.... I think the issue some have with the rule changes relates to a lack of a problem in the first place - what issue was there previously? Most would argue - there was no issue, and so the changes are just bureaucratic over reach.