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Like many forum members I have an informal shooting range at home for siting in and load development. The prospect of tight controls under the new law changes got me thinking about getting up to speed ahead of any inspections. I thought that I had a good 'handle' on range safety, but after watching the following vid, I have some improvements to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVNpkQJZ0lc
Isn't it more about the "primary purpose" of the land? Eg the local NZDA range would come under new requirements, but zeroing on the mate's forest or farm block wouldn't because that's not the primary purpose of the land?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Who's a lawyer on here who can spin some interpretation onto this mess?
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With a bit of luck they will hand it off to others to do. i.e. pistol ranges are cert'ed by nzpa. So it would be NRA that would cert the long ranges 1000m and deerstalkers would do the 25 to 300.
fairly sure it will impact my group of clay bird shooters. We have a loose association of "members" and everything is done / agreed by gentlemans agreement.
Been going 15 years, personal invitations are extended to prospective new members based of recomendations of members (this is the only way you get to join full stop)
we have quite a few traps (15 I think or near too) on one of the members farms..........we are not a club nor a organisation and strive to be as far from it as possible.
I think if we have to have inpsections, make the club formal and have rules etc then it will most likely be the end of it.
Under the old rules , technically you did not need to have a Range certified . The caveat to that if something went wrong you found yourself in deeper sh1t . The Ranges where " certified " by someone in NZPA , I don't know how many or what areas they/ he covered .
The parameters/rules governing the construction come from USA? Military Range documents as they are the only ones who have done actual testing and are not theoretical . How the new "Regime" will work is anyone's guess ?. :O_O:
I've been personally involved in range certification for many years.
The NZ firearms range manual is here: https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/...s-range-manual (unfortunately it's 2005 edition, so we are waiting to see what the new version will cover).
I would imagine they would have neither the time, energy, or inclination to try and find every impromptu setup like the op has. I like most people I know have land to sight in on and occasionally have mates over. I do not publically advertise it, or have formed a group or club, or use it on a regular fixed basis and there are no permanent structures. I do not rent out the "facility" so am not doing it for hire or reward therefore is it a range and how would they find it.
I think this might be being over complicated and in the next two years who knows some sense may prevail and the whole thing forgotton when they realise that clubs already do most of the shit they waffle on about in 32 or so pages more efficiently than they can and that Charlie having a few shots out the back of his farm is not worth worrying about..
Have you blokes all viewed the Youtube link I posted ?? There is some great info and tips all geared towards building and operating home ranges. good sensible stuff we should be aware of regardless of the law changes
The link that basenjiboy has posted has some interesting info. including that 'All ranges need signs and range flags' I have a very good sign that I hang on the road gate which is padlocked when the range is in use. Do I need a flag as well for a farm range ?
Moa Hunter...if you were running a brothel from home...or a P lab...would you put a sign up at the gate????
so IF what you are doing MIGHT be considered somewhat not quite up to standards of the new law...why on earth would you want to advertise that you are doing it???
I can't see how they are going to police it, they do a piss poor job of stopping people on phones talking and txting as well as people wearing helmets on push bikes so finding ranges on farms etc might be in the to hard to do basket.
Let alone catching up with Crims with firearms and drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseman
I have used a sign at the gate for years. I have had one occasion when the Police turned up at the gate - in response to 'reports of gunfire'. The gate was chained and locked. Anyway the officer was a good sort and I asked him if he would like a shot. He declined a shot but checked out what we were doing and left happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Point being, we should all make sure that we are doing things in a good safe professional way so that we dont make metaphorical targets of ourselves.
My feeling is that we are an easy target and there may be some expectation for officers to check up on any firearms use / gunfireQuote:
Originally Posted by Mooseman
The cops will be busy on my road,i have an informal range, the neighbours shoot clays and people along this rod are always sighting in rifles.It sounds good some days
yes we definately should be safe and do thing in safe manner....the point Im making is this.....if its not a proper qualified range WHY stick up signage to say its being used as a range....by all means put up sign saying firearms being used safely,move on nothing to see here,do not enter......the same as controlled burn signs but by putting up range sign you are opening your self up for beurocrap to demand you comply with thier agenda(anyone else notice how similar that is to jacinda).Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
I intend to put a few shots through a couple of rifles next week....on land I have permission to shoot on...behind a locked gate....I cant see the difference between firing those say 10 shots at paper or rabbits.IF I need to put up signage or indeed prior warn police I m going to shoot paper...then I need to do the same for rabbits......
I only put the sign up, when I shoot. Then I have done everything I can. Watch the youtube vid MD and report back. I thought I was doing ok until I watched it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Greetings All,
I think we all need to wait for the Regulations before we get too excited. A quick read through the Act gave me the impression that it is aimed at Shooting Clubs and the Rifle Ranges that they and the public have access to. In some cases these ranges are already certified and the Shooting Clubs Incorporated so for them changes are likely to be minor. For non certified ranges used by a loosely organised group of people the changes could be considerable. For a landowner with a private range on their property who would know at this stage, lets just wait and see.
I have copies of both the New Zealand Police Range Manual 2005 and the earlier New Zealand Firearms Range Manual 1998 that was put out by the Police and Mountain Safety Council and replaced by the former. The NZ Firearms Range Manual gives a better idea of the danger areas required where the more recent manual leaves this to specific design. I will have a look at Moa Hunters U tube tomorrow to see how this compares with the two above.
Regards Grandpamac.
Assuming it is a paddock or something that you have sheep or animals graze on, you are not organised as a club and range is not it's "primary use" you should be all good. You really don't want to be going for certification as this is where it's going to get interesting to what level bar's are raised to.
This is probably a backdoor approach for them to basically ban 338's and other "sniper calibres"(they call them) by not approving any ranges of their use, bar the odd high country setup.
That's your NZDA system, is it currently a NZ Police approved range? Do you think they will stick with same certification criteria? One would hope so but I doubt it. Pistol ranges are the only ones certified currently aren't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Here will be the twist in the Police Certification-All ranges will need to have local body resource consent's and approval to operate as that activity. This is where they have been putting a bit of thought in the background how to really screw shooting sports.
Greetings All,
I watched the U Tube Video posted by Moa Hunter this morning. There was some good stuff in there but I suspect that his operation is the type that would be eliminated by the NZ law changes. The other area that was addressed but glossed over was Range Danger Areas often called Range Templates. These cover a considerable area for centre fire cartridges unless reduced by an appropriate backstop. Assuming the new law does not cover small private ranges the owner will still need to consider how safety is managed in their use.
Regards Grandpamac.
Here comes the problem, as soon as you start to put some appropriate range safety features in say your "casual range" that is also a farm paddock you have now created a "range" that needs Police certification and all appropriate local body consents to operate. Currently most ranges operate under allowed activities.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
This is actually the worst law change out of the two tranches but not many people have realised this...yet.
When I made a submission against this section I did some research with the two territorial authorities district and regional.
The district council felt that a range was a discretionary rather than a permitted activity and therefore need to be notified in order to get a certificate of compliance.
Assuming the range had been started before the introduction of the rma in 1990 under section 10 an existing right use could be issued if it falls within the district plans requirements.
The regional council disagree that an existing use exemption could be granted as the operation involves discharge of contaminants to soil, air and potentially water, however neither had been involved in consenting anything goes like this.
The president has been set by the wairarapa gun club and the Waiuku pistol clubs consent battles.
A bit over 10 years ago Waiuku spent $130,000 on consenting a site they had occupied since the 1980s, driven by a council rule change and a vexatious neighbor
Wairarapa in 2017 coughed up over $100,000 fighting both the neighbors and a hostile regional council to establish their new grounds.
This is going to turn into a shit fight where the police or whoever is administering this at the time can turn and say it's the councils that are closing ranges not us.
I only hope that 2 years is enough time for some sense to be brought to the table.
Yip its going to be dam minefield. Clubs fighting bureaucrats in both Police and Council with Lawyers on tap at ratepayer and taxpayers expense to impede.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
I cynically believe this is slipped in 2nd tranche to particularly target a certain range in Auckland and get rid of it, as they haven't been able to.
I believe there are only a handful of PNZ ranges that would currently comply if read law to the letter.
I foresee this creating the biggest pain in the arse for the police, DOC and regional councils that look after rivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson21
The Hawkes Bay was lacking a range that hunters/shooters could access to sight in/develop loads and practice shooting at. For years there was always continual issues with reports of shooting in river beds etc, this caused the police and the regional council fella that manages the river ways big problems as you could imagine.
The regional council chap that looks after the rivers ended up putting in a casual 400 yd range, with pretty good dirt banks and backstops etc, benches every 100 yrds to 400. A booking system managed by a local sports shop and it all run pretty well. It has become extremely popular and since it has been in existence the issues for the council and police have all but ended.
I can see that under these new regulations we will likely lose this facility, and it will be back to people having no where to go and shoot. People will go back to shooting in river beds and likely will setup makeshift ranges on the edge of public land to sight in before going for a hunt.
Ask yourself, what is safer?
What a total shambles.....but all in the name of progress and making the streets safer. What a joke! Hopefully, commonsense will prevail, but i highly doubt that.
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
It is exactly this sort of range that is at risk. It is ideally located next to a noisy gravel extraction plant and well away from houses but it will probably be lost unless there is some organisation prepared to take it over and manage it as required by the new legislation. Hawkes Bay lost a real asset when the Roy's Hill Range closed,
Regards Grandpamac.
My own experience with having an officer turn up after 'reports of gunfire' is likely to be repeated elsewhere. I am relaxed about having my informal range checked with its locked gate and warning sign, but from the youtube link I see that I need to make some improvements - like a safety plan and first aid on site at the covered bench.
A few years ago I set up an airgun range in my suburban back yard, based on the NZ Police range manual. It came out remarkably similar to what that American You Tube Guy did, with a set of written range procedures just for myself, even to a section of "Medevac" planning. There must be quite a convergence of thinking due to common sense or perhaps some shared range safety culture.
For now, shooting an airgun at home is still legal, providing you don't "annoy, endanger or frighten".
A home made document for a personal range may not be much defence if something goes wrong but it made me think ahead of time about my own set up, eg:
Danger of ricochets - cover all concrete, use paper and soft plastics targets only, wood planks cover steel garage corner
Neighbors - no hearing protection to be used in order to maintain social awareness whether anyone is on the other side of the fence
Lead exposure - standard operating procedure for maintaining the pellet trap.
Stray shots - check the guest (and myself too) can hit a 6cm target from 10m first before moving back to 20m.
A small amount of effort to prevent incidents will be more helpful than a lot of butt covering afterwards.
Items I might add now would be:
Formal briefing for guests (if any)
Instructions for wording to use when communicating with emergency services
Photo/video only by prior agreement - Social media coverage has increased in recent years and we need to always talk and act as if what we do will appear online tomorrow.
Always good to have some solid safety procedure for your personal range, however if the lands primary purpose is not a shooting range then by law you are not subject to any inspections or any of the standing range rules.
Going to be Interesting to see how it works with nzda ranges like here in tauranga. Hopefully we can continue to have free access. As a weekend worker I won't be able to shoot otherwise
Greetings Again All,
A few notes as I see things. First the current larger rifle ranges, like the ones at Taupo, Tokaroa and Tauranga are either already registered or will become so. Some of the Clubs using those ranges may need to become Incorporated Societies if they are not already. The use of the ranges is likely to be more tightly controlled by the clubs with a range officer present when shooting is taking place. There will remain some problems with zoning and noise as at present.
Second the small occasional range on private property, used only by the landowner and family should continue. These ranges are subject to health and safety requirements at present which will continue. Problems with noise as above will continue.
Last there are the semi official ranges like the Gravel Pit here in Hawkes Bay or small ranges used by small groups of the public. Few if any of these are registered and many are on land owned or controlled by others. These are the ones at risk.
Just My Thoughts. Grandpamac.
I wouldn't consider anything safe at present..... if a range or use is challenged, it will be costly to challenge....and will end up shut down (same result - and that's exactly what idiot Nash wants....)Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
I think it will be interesting what the threshold will be of when something is considered a "shooting range" for the purpose of the act. I almost feel like if you deliberately build up a berm or backstop with the sole purpose of catching bullets, and/or you install permanent target stands or steel targets, whilst you may not be running a club, it wouldn't be a long bow to draw for the police to say you have built an off ticket shooting range. Especially if an incident occurs as a result of any activity on it.