Getting Into Long Range Hunting - Ongoing thread

Over the past couple of years, I have had this hair brain idea that I would like to get more into the Longer Range shooting/hunting around the place.
Up until recently, this was merely an idea. However a few things have fallen into place for me to actually turn this idea into a reality. I intend this thread to be a bit of a step by step, showing what I do and why I do it. I will update it as I go along. Hopefully it will serve as a bit of a guide to someone else who looks at doing the same thing, and will give them a bit of an idea as to how much it will cost.

NOTE: I am on a budget, but I am not letting money get in the way of getting the right gear for my needs. Weight is an issue, but I am not looking to build a light weight rig. I want a compromise between carry-ability, and being nice to shoot.

The Rifle

So of course the first step was to get a suitable rifle in a suitable caliber. To do this, I needed to set a goal of how far I wanted to shoot. I decided that 500 yards was a good figure. This seemed to be a good starting point, as it was generally outside the range of most hunting rifles, but wasnt at the extreme end of things. I felt this was an achievable figure on my modest budget.

Caliber
The age old argument with all forms of shooting and hunting - What caliber? Well it didnt take me long to make the decision that 7mm Remington Magnum would be my cartridge of choice. The main reasons why I chose this were:

• Manageable recoil without the need for a muzzle brake
• Inherent Accuracy
• 162gr A-Max seems to be a good projectile of choice
• Enough energy to move out to longer ranges as my skill level increased

Rifle

This was an area that had me thinking for a significant amount of time. I basically had 4 options:

• Buy someones custom built rifle
• Buy a high end factory rifle
• Buy a standard factory rifle and customise from there
• Buy a standard factory rifle - and shoot it

All of them had their pros and cons. Initially my plans were to bring in a Rem 700 Stainless Magnum action and a Shillen Barrel from the US. This looked to cost about $1300 landed. However this was taken off the menu due to the Stainless Magnum actions being discontinued from the factory.
I was then keeping an eye out on trademe for a secondhand Rem 700 that I could pickup and then build a custom from. While doing this, Kiwigreg from the forum posted his Rem Sendero up for sale. It already had load development done, had a Warne steel rail attached, and had done bugger all work. Greg had fired a few groups with it, and it looked to be an excellent shooter. It also came with 15 loaded rounds, and 35 once fired Norma brass. All this for $2400. In the end, I decided this was the best option for me.

Scope

Obviously the next purchase needed to be a scope. This was quite a quick process, as I narrowed my options down quite quickly, due to budget. My 3 options I narrowed down to were:

• Weaver Superslam
• Leupold VX-3
• Leupold Mark 4

I then ignored the Weaver, as I felt they didnt have a long enough track record with good quality, repeatable scopes. This left the two Leupold scopes.
My research then suggested that the two remaining shared very similar optics, same warranty, same repeatability. So in the end, it came down to extras. However this also wasnt much of a factor, as either could be customised by leupold.

My decision was however made up for me, when Scott Trail listed the Mark 4 4.5 - 14 x 50 LR\T M1 with mildot on trademe. It was in as new condition, and had come off his 338LM. I ended up picking this up for $1500.

So tonights plan is to mount the scope in Warne Low rings.
Once I have taken it to the range, I will post up a review of what I have to date. Will also post up a few pics :)

Looking forward to hearing how this setup shoots.... I was tempted to buy the rifle at one point until I remembered I need to keep saving for my OE.

We need some photo's aswell :thumbsup:

Watching with interest,wouldnt have minded that sendero myself:thumbsup:

Lock up your hunting spots boys...

PRIME combination there Mossie, bloody top work getting that.

Scott and KiwiGreg have given you top quality gear, you will love it, -what a way to start you LR hunting !!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tui4Me

Lock up your hunting spots boys...

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Bout time you showed up here........

Great idea for a thread mate. Andrew is right, you have got yourself a great rifle and scope that will easily do the business.

Good luck!

looking forward to the photos of the targets and deer you shoot with that new rig :thumbsup:
Good luck and keep us posted.

Good stuff, will watch the updates.

Another LR shoot?

Might have to talk to Phillpo.

Need some pics:playingsmiley:

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Originally Posted by Shootm

Good stuff, will watch the updates.

Another LR shoot?

Might have to talk to Phillpo.

Need some pics:playingsmiley:

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Good idea - I'm getting bored shooting at steel at LR by myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pop Shot

Good idea - I'm getting bored shooting at steel at LR by myself.

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I'm only a text away:have a nice day: Hint Hint

Ritey oh Gentlemen (I use the term very loosely) - its time for an update.

Wednesday last week saw me jump in the ute and bolt down to Hammils Wellington to get some rings and mount my new scope. First off, I would like to say thanks to Brad from Hammils - you are a good bastard, and put up with me coming into the shop, and taking over the counter to work on my rifle :) Much appreciated.

So the temporary Elite 4200 3-9-40 scope was quickly whisked off, and the almost new Mark 4 lined up. I was quite keen to see if it would fit with low rings, however they didnt have any in stock at the time. Being the impatient bastard that I am, some Medium Warne steel rings were grabbed off the shelf and mounted to the one piece Warne Steel rail. Scope was checked for eye relief (very generous on the Mark 4) and lined up as best as I could by eye. Which turns out to be not so good hahaha.

Attachment 294
Attachment 295

Off out to the range we go.........

So after a bit of work getting the scope zero'd at 100 yards (badly though as the scope seems to be canted) - I pushed the target out to 200 to shoot a couple of groups. And was completely stoked with the result.
Attachment 296
I wound up an additional 1.5 MOA on top of the 1MOA required for 200 yards to get the shots up near the gray dot on the target, as it is much easier to see the hits. I also wound on 1MOA right because of my zero being out at 100 (I was running out of ammo and wanted to shoot a couple of groups).

After taking a walk to the 200 yard mound, I replaced the target to see if it was a fluke, or if I was actually shooting this well. I also wound the scope to 0.25MOA right to correct for the shift on the previous target.
Attachment 297
The one flyer was the last shot, and I know I pulled it. But it is still an MOA group strangely enough.
As you can see though, I am having some issues with scope adjustments, which will need to be investigated. First impressions though - I am very happy with the results I am getting :D

You can get all tecky with setting up scope but if you have a detachable mag this works well.
Remove mag and bolt.
Sit at right angles on a level surface,(it must be square because the mag box will be on an angle) sitting on the mag box. I use the kitchen bench.
Line up on a known level or plumb surface,Distant doorway or wall, horision on water etc.
Done.
This will get you really really close if done right.
Now people will say that if the mag box,barrel and scope are not all in line this will cause an error witch is true but we are not talking about a cheap shit rifle.
They may allso say that the cross hairs and the actual movement of the rectical might not line up either and it is better to use a level on the turret but be aware that your turret may not be true.Check by getting level and rotating turret half turn and rechecking.Mines not true!
Also if the recticle doesn't line up with the actual movement it would mean you would have to use it with the recticul on the piss to dial up in a straight line.But I doubt you will have that problem with a mark4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pop Shot

Good idea - I'm getting bored shooting at steel at LR by myself.

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Will flick you a text with a few days warning.... your 7mm mag might smash through my plate of steel haha.

Mossie - that looks the business - bloody accurate too!

I did mention it shot quite well didn't I ;)

Glad it is behaving for you :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

I did mention it shot quite well didn't I ;)

Glad it is behaving for you :thumbsup:

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Whos apprentice are you Greg?

Sweet, it's looking good Mossie :thumbs:


Will have to have a range / pratice day in the next couple of weeks ( I just have to get my shit organised first ) :)

Looks real good, I say rather enviously.

Quick update - My goal of shooting a deer at 500 yards was reached on boxing day :) 565 was the magic number.

Once I get the photo from the camera, I will post up a bit more of a story.

:cool: waiting for pics

nice :thumbsup:

looking forward to a write up

Good stuff:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Looks like a just right setup. Nothing too expensive or flashy but all bases covered. Good bullet, stable rifle, repeatable scope. Now just shoot the shit out of it!!!!!

You could wait 17 months for an ultra super match precision custom barrel in .317 Lardo Ultra Wildcat with a bore hand lapped by Venetian midgets using handfuls of Keira Nightleys pubes. Have an NZ Gunsmith screw it (crooked) into an action which is an imported CNC lathe produced REM 700 that is 5 times heavier, 5 times straighter, 20 times shinier and 5 times more expensive. Mount it into a stock that looks like a MillSpec coated Darlics cock. Fit a trigger that breaks at 4 ounces. By coincidence, after purchasing it your credit card now breaks if you try to spend $4. Wait another 10 months for custom dies from whoever created .317 Lardo Ultra by necking down .318 Lardo Magnum. Another five months for hand turned custom solids designed by some guy who used to sweep up at NASA. Spend three weeks and 2000 dollars fire forming your brass. Wait another 5 months for more projectiles. Do your load development. Change your muzzle break. Wait five months for projectiles. Re-do your load development with the new muzzle break. You go to a LR shoot with the guys from NZHS. Everyone loves your rifle, under their glowing admiration you cant resist letting everyone have a shot. Wait another five months for projectiles. You shoot a deer. Your barrel is now shot out. Order another barrel.

After that will you be a better shot than if you buy a second hand rifle off Kiwi Greg and a second hand M4 and then spend the time shooting?

I fucken doubt it.

:cool:

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Tussock
That has to be the best post I have read in ages :cool:

I got an extended mag box of TM, it turns out the guy bought a 300 Rum Sendero off me.
He is over the moon, shoots .4 at 100 with 208s & he has no issues hitting his 12" gong at 900 :cool:
That was another one I got & was going to turn it into an Edge but it was far to good to wreck.
I can't believe the money guys pay for some rifles, custom & fancy factory.

Tussock, do you still have that .317 Lardo for sale?

Got any pics that show how shiny the barrel is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Looks like a just right setup. Nothing too expensive or flashy but all bases covered. Good bullet, stable rifle, repeatable scope. Now just shoot the shit out of it!!!!!

You could wait 17 months for an ultra super match precision custom barrel in .317 Lardo Ultra Wildcat with a bore hand lapped by Venetian midgets using handfuls of Keira Nightleys pubes. Have an NZ Gunsmith screw it (crooked) into an action which is an imported CNC lathe produced REM 700 that is 5 times heavier, 5 times straighter, 20 times shinier and 5 times more expensive. Mount it into a stock that looks like a MillSpec coated Darlics cock. Fit a trigger that breaks at 4 ounces. By coincidence, after purchasing it your credit card now breaks if you try to spend $4. Wait another 10 months for custom dies from whoever created .317 Lardo Ultra by necking down .318 Lardo Magnum. Another five months for hand turned custom solids designed by some guy who used to sweep up at NASA. Spend three weeks and 2000 dollars fire forming your brass. Wait another 5 months for more projectiles. Do your load development. Change your muzzle break. Wait five months for projectiles. Re-do your load development with the new muzzle break. You go to a LR shoot with the guys from NZHS. Everyone loves your rifle, under their glowing admiration you cant resist letting everyone have a shot. Wait another five months for projectiles. You shoot a deer. Your barrel is now shot out. Order another barrel.

After that will you be a better shot than if you buy a second hand rifle off Kiwi Greg and a second hand M4 and then spend the time shooting?

I fucken doubt it.

:cool:

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Yep, all pretty much on the money. KG will know better than most about not being able to get projectiles to shoot... A reliable source of "sensible" projectiles should be one of the first things that is considered when developing a load/building a rifle.

This is a major reason that I built a 338 rather than a 375 for LR. The 300gr SMK was readily available and the 300gr Hybrid was coming. There was (still is) all sorts of wild fantasy 375 ultra high bc projectiles being tested through specialised gain twist etc barrels. Building something based around one of these would result in a very expensive safe dweller "coz I'm waiting on projectiles for my ultra specialised barrel as it won't shoot anything readily available (which are all flying bricks designed for close range big game felling)" (in my opinion). Sure, barrel life is better in a 375 (who really cares when you are building something like this?) but the projectiles at $5 a pop would make for a much more expensive beast to run, not to mention that you couldn't afford to shoot it coz either (1) its to expensive, and/or (2) you don't have any projectiles...

It is also the main reason I have a 7mm as my main hunting rifle. Either 162gr amax or 180gr hybrids/vld's make excellent LR projectiles, and there are heaps of choices for closer range things.

In saying all this, both my 7mm and 338 are custom cases, with custom dies, but since Greg Duley had done all the the load development/testing, it cut out basically all the BS of building something a bit different. Not wanting to push Greg's stuff, but I think his light weight LR rigs are a very good combination of parts without going crazy with custom actions etc.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...3/IMG_0324.jpg

Claw, are you using the Hybrids on game?

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Originally Posted by Bremic

Claw, are you using the Hybrids on game?

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I plan to... From what I've been told they perform very well. I have been using the 300gr SMK's with very good results, but have recently done a bit of load work with the 300gr Hybrids but need to do some long range verification with them prior to looking for game. Just recently got the 7mm, missed a bull tahr last time out :disapointed: (my fault) and not likely to get out hunting for a month or 2 now to try it out. I have a property with a heap of goats that need culling so will get there... Also need some venison so maybe an evening mission to the local "meat safe" will happen sooner rather than later.

Looks like a great set-up. I've just set up a very similar rig. I decided to go brand new and got a Tikka Varmint in 7mm Rem Mag topped with a Olivon scope. Have been very impressed so far (45 rnds). Best so far was 5 balloons with 6 shots at 600m.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Claw

Yep, all pretty much on the money. KG will know better than most about not being able to get projectiles to shoot... A reliable source of "sensible" projectiles should be one of the first things that is considered when developing a load/building a rifle.

This is a major reason that I built a 338 rather than a 375 for LR. The 300gr SMK was readily available and the 300gr Hybrid was coming. There was (still is) all sorts of wild fantasy 375 ultra high bc projectiles being tested through specialised gain twist etc barrels. Building something based around one of these would result in a very expensive safe dweller "coz I'm waiting on projectiles for my ultra specialised barrel as it won't shoot anything readily available (which are all flying bricks designed for close range big game felling)" (in my opinion). Sure, barrel life is better in a 375 (who really cares when you are building something like this?) but the projectiles at $5 a pop would make for a much more expensive beast to run, not to mention that you couldn't afford to shoot it coz either (1) its to expensive, and/or (2) you don't have any projectiles...

It is also the main reason I have a 7mm as my main hunting rifle. Either 162gr amax or 180gr hybrids/vld's make excellent LR projectiles, and there are heaps of choices for closer range things.

In saying all this, both my 7mm and 338 are custom cases, with custom dies, but since Greg Duley had done all the the load development/testing, it cut out basically all the BS of building something a bit different. Not wanting to push Greg's stuff, but I think his light weight LR rigs are a very good combination of parts without going crazy with custom actions etc.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...3/IMG_0324.jpg

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Claw you're right the 375 is all bad and you should keep away from it at any cost. Eating humble pie is a bitch though.

I will look at the 375 again when it comes time to rebarrel. I haven't discounted the 375 completely, just at the time I built, the availability of projectiles wasn't good. In saying that, anything that I've seen bigger than my 338 hasn't made me think "bugger, I wish I'd built something bigger"... so maybe what I have is enough for me

sent from my phone... spelling could be average

So I spose I should finally get off my arse and get a trip report done :D

With Xmas day over - plenty of beers consumed and far too much food demolished - boxing day rolls round. It was early when I get a call from me mate Tui4Me asking if I wanted to stretch the legs on the new canon. Of course I was keen as.

First off was a quick trip to his shooting posie, to quickly verify the drop chart at the range we would be shooting at. 7.5MOA was dialled for the 7.4MOA drop at 500 yards. Two shots sent down range through the mirage, then into the ute to go check the target.
Attachment 410
I was happy with the first two being 1.25" at 500 yards, so with a quick .5MOA down and .5MOA left to allow for the wind, the third shot was fired and a hit in the 4" bull was considered a success :D Time to go hunting.........

After a bit of running around finding gear (I had only brought day hunting gear with me, and we were planning an overnighter) we headed off into the hills. The first few steps up the hill had the heart working off the previous day (and feeling it too). Soon later we were at the lookout spot, and getting ready to go. All of about 5 minutes later, with the rifle only just setup, an excited voice mutters "Shit......there is a deer already there for ya.......right in the middle!!!".
Well the heart was still pumping away from the walk in, and I struggled to settle in behind the rifle, but the deer was happily feeding its way through the clearing, even setting down for a while. This gave me some time to reduce the heart rate a little.
Finally I settled behind the rifle, dialled the 8.75MOA to get me to the 565 yard mark, and when a broadside shot presented itself, I squeezed off a round and sent the 162gr A-Max cruising over to meet the deer. Clean bloody miss!!!!! I had pulled the shot right (a bit of a problem I need to deal with in the future). Luckily the deer only got a bit of a fright, but didnt leave the clearing. It even kept on feeding!!!!! Re-ranging the deer saw it still at 565 yards, so I once again settled behind the rifle and loaded another round. Once my lucky chance second broadside shot presented itself, I squeezed off the second round. I was rather relieved to hear the "HIT!!!!" call come from beside me.

After the standard handshake and congrats, we pondered our situation. With a 2 hour round trip to get the deer, and 2.5 hours of light remaining, we made the call to bolt over there and recover it. And bolt we did, walking/skidding our way down the hill then grovelling back out the other side (well I was grovelling, with me mate flying up like he had a bloody jetpack on). Soon enough we reach the clearing, to find my deer. A nice yearling red.
Attachment 411
With the obligatory photo then slice and dice session over, we made like a hockey player and pucked off back to the lookout - making it back with 15mins of light left. At this point we made the call to flag the overnighter and walk back out, as we had already wandered across the clearing and didnt expect anything to come out in the morning. So on go the headlamps and we did the walk out in the dark.

So the new rifle now has had its first kill in my hands, and my first deer shot at more than 150 yards :D I still have a long way to go before I can call myself a long range hunter, but hopefully my first hunt with the new rifle is a sign of things to come.

Big Thanks to Tui4Me for his help and taking me to that spot marked X on the map.

Killing a Deer at 565 yards is a great shot in anyones book, well done Mossie, you will love eating that off the BBQ.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Killing a Deer at 565 yards is a great shot in anyones book, well done Mossie, you will love eating that off the BBQ.

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He sweated for it that's for sure ;)

Was a great shot for the 1st deer he has taken with that rifle :thumbsup:

Damn, i'd be lucky to see a animal at that range, never mind shoot it.

Nice one mossie.

Hope you can over come the pulling issue I read about in another thread

Once again nice one :thumbsup:

Well it is about time I added another small update to this thread.

Latest shoot with the rifle was the long range gong shoot in Ohakune with all the boys. And it is safe to say - it performed brilliantly. Running straight from my unverified drop chart, I was hitting gongs out to 1000yards with no vertical adjustment needed. Gongs were placed at 480, 680 and 1000 yards. 10" and 4" plates at 480 were hit first shots. The wind at 680 proved a pain, but two shots of wind adjustment had me on the 10" in the third shot. Then 4" plate hit first shot.
1000 yard was quite some fun and games. At one point, I had 23MOA up, and 15MOA wind! But once the wind was nailed, and picking the timing of my shots, 1000 yards was conquered :)

Now I have really caught the LR bug, so will be looking at rangefinders next :) Watch this space............

Wind is the hard bit allright.especially across a gully where you have no indicator. I need lots of pratice here.