Thread: Groups settling after cleaning

Was reading another thread about barrel cleaning and figured I'd toss this out to the group.

Have a plain stainless tikka in 7mm08 that shoots well with tuned loads. Gun is in good shape with no damage, bore is bright and sharp, nice crown, no real issues to speak of.

Only annoying thing is that the gun shoots well when it's dirty, but if I clean the bore the groups open up and take about 30-40 rounds to for the groups to tighten up again. I prefer to clean my rifles regularly, but this definitely makes me avoid cleaning this particular rifle more often than I have to.

I've tried the following to see if I can figure out why it does this:
- Cleaned the rifle without removing the action from the stock vs removing the action. Result: No difference
- Cleaned muzzle towards action, and also action towards muzzle. Result: No difference
- Cleaned the bore with brass vs nylon brushes. Result: No difference
- Cleaned the bore with brushes only, or brushes with patched jags. Result: No difference
- Cleaned the bore with hoppes, crc556, and dry. Result: No difference
- Wiped the bore and chamber with dry patches prior to shooting with patches vs no wiping prior to shooting. Result: No difference
- Torqued the action screws and checked for barrel contact with forestock when shooting as per online recommendations, tried various torque settings. Result: No difference

I'm going to bed the rifle in the next while in case I'm somehow disturbing it as part of the cleaning process and it's settling, but really I'm out of ideas. Funny thing is, leaving it uncleaned isn't really an issue, I'm just annoyed that I don't know why it does it. What do you guys think?

It likes a fouled barrel simple as that......If it aint broke fix it till it is

my wifes 243 likes to be cleaned every 50-80 rounds , groups open up past 100. take 3-4 rounds to settle down again. my 223 and 7m08 like to be dirty and take 10ish rounds to come right, think im up to 230 shots in the 223 and be 80ish for the 7mm. my uncle tells me rifles are like women some like to be clean and others are dirty btchs work out what you have and dont mess with it.

No personal experience, but some shooters in the US recommend Lock-ease for quicker settling of a barrel after cleaning. It's graphite in solution - apparently you leave a thin layer in the bore after you've finished your cleaning routine.

If you want to try it I'm not sure how easy it is to get actual Lock-ease in NZ, but presumably you could find something similar.

just oil it in beween if it shoots dirty then it makes no difference long as it shoots. just means you need to find how dirty is too dirty. my old 708 t3 was the same wouldnt shoot under 1.5" at 100y after a clean 10 rounds in started closing up

Sounds like you need to stop cleaning

Originally Posted by gimp

Sounds like you need to stop cleaning

Pretty much. It's at the stage now that unless it's obscenely dirty I just mist some oil down it and call it a day. Trouble is I like knowing why something is happening

the answer is because.

Currently I must be around at least 500 rounds since cleaning, accuracy is not affected, shoots 3/4 or better. I'm not a rough bugger, just my barrel despises being cleaned
Edit:
I do run a bore snake through after every hunt. Not what I'd call a cleaning regime though.

Originally Posted by canross

Trouble is I like knowing why something is happening

Over time, a layer of carbon and copper fouling builds up in the barrel. This fouling can help condition the bore, filling in microscopic imperfections and providing a consistent surface for the bullet to travel along.
Have you tried using just a carbon remover bore solvent but not a copper remover solvent? Keeping the copper fouling can sometimes act as a sort of buffer or cushion for the bullet, resulting in more consistent and predictable performance.

Or if that doesn't work then it's probably caused by fairy and pixie dust (with Elves sometimes in the mix)...

What size groups are you talking before and after cleaning?

I believe......what you experiencing will have something to do with fine copper coating filling in rougher bits of the bore..for better way to discribe it... try couple of oily patches/breakfree clp patches..then couple of dry patches then one with couple of drops CLP through then put it away...youve removed MOST of the bad crap,the carbon and powder residue, but will leave the other stuff filling in rough bits...barrel wont deteriate as has light coating of oil/clp that way its only when you get all fussy and do a deep clean you will have to foul barrel again.... target shooters are well known for shooting fouler shots to get barrel back to its best..yours obviously likes to be run a bit more dirty.
my old remington single shot 22lr used to take half a box of ammo to settle back down after cleaning..so stopped doing it.

your cleaning it to much!as said above you want copper to fill the microscopic imperfections in the barrel,just run one patch lightly oiled thru it after shooting for storage protection then dry patch it before next shoot.

Last month I thought it was a smart idea to put a ballon at the end of the barrel of one of my rifle and fill the barrel with Boretech eliminator. Group went from a 0.5moa average to 2inch at 100m…. It is getting better now after 60 rounds but still not as consistent. As other said if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

What size groups are you talking before and after cleaning?

Checked saved targets:
Averaging 0.85 inch 5-shot groups fouled at 100 yards. Still working on my consistency so sometimes better, sometimes worse, but pretty uniformly between .60" on a good day and 1.05" on a bad day. I can usually call my bad shots from feel with the fouled bore, but with the cleaned bore it feels like the shots are more or less random regardless of how the shot felt.

Haven't kept the clean bore targets, but something around 3 inch groups at 100m freshly cleaned, sometimes with excessive fliers. Groupings come and go until about 40 rounds then seem to settle and tighten up and stay there.

Forgot to add that when shooting groups there are 5 quick sighting shots to warm the barrel up then following shots are done on 4 minute intervals in the shade. Usually don't shoot groups on hot days or direct sunlight so the barrel never really overheats or has significant heat changes over baseline for the shooting period. All this is from a concrete bench with stable rests and bags.