Thread: Help me learn and understand if you will

This is a plea going out to all of you guys that are learned on the subject of long range shooting and all things related to it.

Some of you will no doubt be aware that I have recently purchased a Savage 110 BA in 300 Win Mag and have mounted a Leupold Mk4 LR/T 8.5 - 25 X 50 M1 scope on it.

Today my buddy AndreH and I took it down the back of the farm and set up a target at 100 yards with the primary intention of zeroing the rifle but also to give it its first try out and have a bit of fun(can't help being a boy). Although I now have the rifle close to being on centre I pulled the pin on progressing any further until I develop a better understanding of a couple of things so the purpose of this thread is for me to ask some questions and for you fellah's that know and understand to answer in words of one syllable so that I can learn.

For those that don't know me I am an old bugger that does not understand the technical side of firearms much and who most typically either takes a rifle out hunting and either fires one shot or no shot's depending upon the presence of animals. Up until now zeroing is something that I seldom do and target shooting is something that I never do so today in throwing 25 rounds down range I have shot more than I would have in the last three years.

So here is the first question:

1. With my hunting rifles wich generally have low end scopes set on the lowest magnification setting (3 or 4) I can pick any of the rifles up and immediately get a good sight picture through the scope and that is the case in any shooting position. Today when zeroing (from the prone position) I had the scope set on the maximum magnification and struggled to get a good sight picture (experiencing parallax and having to move my head back and forwards and up and down far too much for my liking in order to get a good sight picture and when I did I struggled to hold it). I then experimented and starting with the scope wound down to the minimum setting and a good sight picture, I had Andrew slowly increase the magnification. When we did this increasing magnification slowly introduced parallax until I could no longer see through the scope. Doing the same thing in reverse (starting on maximum magnification and reducing) produced the same result where I went from a good sight picture to none at all. Starting from the mid point of magnification and going up and down in magnification also caused parallax but not to the same point of totally obscurring the sight picture.

Even I know that to be able to use the rifle optimally on adopting the shooting position I need to be able to gain a cheek weld that immediately produces a good sight picture so please if you know why this is occurring and how I can rectify it then tell me what I should do.

If you don't know the rifle then I am sure that by getting onto Google you will find out more about it than I can tell you. It does have a butt and cheek adjustment hich I have played with and which now feels right.

Parralax is movement of the cross hair relative to the target when you move your eye around the "eye box"
The eye box tends to get smaller on higher magnifications.

It sounds to me like your scope is set to far forward or back.
And or your stock needs adjusting.

Find your natural position on the stock and move the scope back and forward until you have it in the middle of the two positions where you start to loose a full picture. Do this on high power. You should now naturally be in the middle of the eyebox when you look threw the scope.

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Tell us about how the earth shook, the sky went grey, the birds stopped singing, and Andrew started cussing in Gaelic went the cannon let rip!

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It doesn't sound like parallex that is the issue, I think you can adjust it for 100m on that scope.
According to the specs the eye relief on it varies from 3.7" at max magnification to 5.3" at the lowest setting, a variation of 1.6"(40mm). the prob looks to be that as you wide up the magnification you need to move your head lot closer to the scope, if you don't your loosing your view through the scope.
What mag did you have it on when you set the scope up on the rifle for you.

On a separate issue, do you want me to drop in my Chrono so you can make up a drop chart for the ammo your using at the mo?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Parralax is movement of the cross hair relative to the target when you move your eye around the "eye box"
The eye box tends to get smaller on higher magnifications.

It sounds to me like your scope is set to far forward or back.
And or your stock needs adjusting.

Find your natural position on the stock and move the scope back and forward until you have it in the middle of the two positions where you start to loose a full picture. Do this on high power. You should now naturally be in the middle of the eyebox when you look threw the scope.

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VC, i don't know whether Parallax is the right terminology for what was occurring but there was increasing blackness and tunnelling effect. Are you suggesting to loosen the scope rings and move the scope back and forward until this problem goes away and then tighten it back down?

Originally Posted by Barefoot

It doesn't sound like parallex that is the issue, I think you can adjust it for 100m on that scope.
According to the specs the eye relief on it varies from 3.7" at max magnification to 5.3" at the lowest setting, a variation of 1.6"(40mm). the prob looks to be that as you wide up the magnification you need to move your head lot closer to the scope, if you don't your loosing your view through the scope.
What mag did you have it on when you set the scope up on the rifle for you.

On a separate issue, do you want me to drop in my Chrono so you can make up a drop chart for the ammo your using at the mo?

Baby steps Stu so I will pass on the chrono for the moment but you seem to be onto something with the move the head forward comment. As to what magnification i had it on when i mounted the scope, I actually don't know as I just screwed it on without knowing there was a right or wrong place to put it. I really mean it when I say i don't know about this stuff.

Originally Posted by Tussock

He is losing his sight picture as he is struggling to get his head centered.

Yep exactly. So now I need to know what to do to fix that. Will read your next post now.

Rushy I think you need to loosen your rings and move the scope back and forward through them on various zoom powers until you find the sweet spot for your eyes.

Originally Posted by Tussock

You just have to slide everything back and forwards on different powers to get the right sight picture (a nice round clear one).

Get the height right first (raise or lower your cheep piece as above) so your centered, then move the scope back and forwards. Once it looks right on all powers, tighten it up.

25x is always going to be a bit finicky as far as eye relief goes, as you have discovered.

OK so just to make certain I understand properly. I need to loosen off the scope rings. Adopt a shooting position. Slide the scope to a position where I get a good sight picture (what magnification would you suggest?). Tighten up the rings. Change the magnification and see whether the sight picture remains good. keep doing this until I find the optimal position and then tighten it down for good. If yes then say yes. If No then tell me where I went wrong.

Originally Posted by Gibo

Rushy I think you need to loosen your rings and move the scope back and forward through them on various zoom powers until you find the sweet spot for your eyes.

Thanks Gibo. I am getting the impression you are correct.

Originally Posted by Rushy

Thanks Gibo. I am getting the impression you are correct.

Maybe but dont bank on it

Go the mighty 300 win mag, just purchased another one last week, have 3 off them in the cabinet.
Just waiting on the Vortex scope to arrive.
No substitute for cubic capacity Rushy.

Yip what has already been said Rushy, Barefoot gave you the eye releif specs for your scope.

Adopt shootiing position (I recomend"shooting" slightly up hill as if you set "shooting" down hill and have to shoot up It can get real close to your eyebrow )

Look threw scope(on its highest setting) and slide back and forward. too far forward or back will have the veiw close in from the outside of scope. Go for the middel of those two points. You may or may not have to move your mounts on the rail (its on a rail?) to achieve the middel of the "eyebox" or eye releif range.

Make a note of its position fore and aft and sit it on a level bench or something on a flat part of the rifle, I use the mag bottom metal with mag removed but whatever will work to hold it plumb.
Sight some known plumb or level thing, water on horison, side of shed, that corner post you were so anal about getting perfect etc. and rotate scope till cross hairs are parrelel . check fore- aft and snug it down.

This is pretty rough compared to the shit some guys go threw to level there scope but its near enough for me to hit steel WAY past what i would ever consider shooting at a animal, and Iv only got a 308.

Generally you want the lowest mounts you can that still give your scope at least 3mm clearance from barrel, but you have an adj stock so go threw the same procedure again looking at the hight of your eye and the sight picture, if you pull back from the scope it will darken from the edges,when this happens it should be even all around the sides if not move your eye then you will see where you need to move your cheek weld to.

This is pretty basic but should have you seeing what your going to be shooting at least.

Gidday Rushy, I hope you get things sorted. I got this from the user manual for your scope online.

They say it in a nut shell for you.
ESTABLISHING EYE RELIEF
Because of the safety considerations associated with proper eye relief, Leupold
strongly recommends that you mount your scope as far forward as possible.
Beyond that, follow these steps:
1. With the scope as far forward in the mounts as possible, hold the rifle in
your normal shooting position (Variable power scopes should be set at the
highest magnification for this process).
2. Slowly move the scope to the rear just until you can see a full sight picture.
3. Position your scope here for maximum eye relief.
4. Proceed to COMPLETING THE INSTALLATION.

One you get this sorted there is a focus/paralex knob on the left hand side of the scope,you should use this to fine tune the paralex when looking at the target.

There is a bit that goes into longrange shooting but, getting the basics right from the start is all ways a recipe for success in the future.

RUNAS

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Yip what has already been said Rushy, Barefoot gave you the eye releif specs for your scope.

Adopt shootiing position (I recomend"shooting" slightly up hill as if you set "shooting" down hill and have to shoot up It can get real close to your eyebrow )

Look threw scope(on its highest setting) and slide back and forward. too far forward or back will have the veiw close in from the outside of scope. Go for the middel of those two points. You may or may not have to move your mounts on the rail (its on a rail?) to achieve the middel of the "eyebox" or eye releif range.

Make a note of its position fore and aft and sit it on a level bench or something on a flat part of the rifle, I use the mag bottom metal with mag removed but whatever will work to hold it plumb.
Sight some known plumb or level thing, water on horison, side of shed, that corner post you were so anal about getting perfect etc. and rotate scope till cross hairs are parrelel . check fore- aft and snug it down.

This is pretty rough compared to the shit some guys go threw to level there scope but its near enough for me to hit steel WAY past what i would ever consider shooting at a animal, and Iv only got a 308.

Generally you want the lowest mounts you can that still give your scope at least 3mm clearance from barrel, but you have an adj stock so go threw the same procedure again looking at the hight of your eye and the sight picture, if you pull back from the scope it will darken from the edges,when this happens it should be even all around the sides if not move your eye then you will see where you need to move your cheek weld to.

This is pretty basic but should have you seeing what your going to be shooting at least.

Thanks VC I will do that next weekend. Dark now