Thread: How to manage recoil?

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

3. length of the barrel. Recoil push does not happen until bullet leaves muzzle. Recoil is the backward push by the escaping gas, therefore the more that the gas expands inside the barrel the less the sudden push when it gets out, and the less recoil.

While much of this is accurate I'm not sure about point 3. Longer barrelled rifles experience less recoil simply because they are heavier. Recoil is Newton's Third Law of Motion - the 'action' of both the bullet and weight of the gases and unburnt powder moving forwards causes an equal and opposite 'reaction' moving backwards.

Although the sound quality is crap there's an interesting comparison between a suppressor and a T2 muzzle brake here. Conclusion: the muzzle brake on test makes a substantial difference to measured recoil whereas the suppressor makes very little difference. The recoil perceived with the suppressor may be less because of the reduced noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6ivKUyTiM

Many decades ago as a schoolboy I used to shoot 3, 6 and 900 yards at Tai Tapu with a brass butt plated .303 service rifle. Being all of an eight stone string bean my shoulder definitely felt it but thankfully I never developed a flinch. Good training or good luck, I don't know?

Originally Posted by on2it

While much of this is accurate I'm not sure about point 3. Longer barrelled rifles experience less recoil simply because they are heavier. Recoil is Newton's Third Law of Motion - the 'action' of both the bullet and weight of the gases and unburnt powder moving forwards causes an equal and opposite 'reaction' moving backwards.

It would seem that you are sort of correct, and I was not.

I looked this up and what others report is that the longer the barrel the faster the bullet therefore MORE recoil, but the extra weight on the gun cancels out that, resulting in more or less the same overall recoil. That is quite interesting.

What is also interesting is that people "feel" more recoil when the gun is louder. Shorter barrel definitely results in a louder bang, which is probably why i always felt shorter barrels produce more recoil. It seems that shorter barrel only produces more felt recoil, not actual recoil.

Add to this internal muzzle brakes, contained within the suppressor so you don't get the bother of the blast. @gundoc may be able to comment.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Add to this internal muzzle brakes, contained within the suppressor so you don't get the bother of the blast. @gundoc may be able to comment.

I have always wondered if this is doable.

In your normal suppressor, holes are uniform and non-directional. Gas evenly and progressively escape the holes as it moves from end of muzzle to the end of the can. If you add a muzzle brake inside the suppressor, you push gas backwards but then the gas is immediate met with the wall of the suppressor. I would think the suppressor will be blown up fast. unless you make it so the suppressor can extends out in a "A" shape. but i have never seen such a device.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

I have always wondered if this is doable.

In your normal suppressor, holes are uniform and non-directional. Gas evenly and progressively escape the holes as it moves from end of muzzle to the end of the can. If you add a muzzle brake inside the suppressor, you push gas backwards but then the gas is immediate met with the wall of the suppressor. I would think the suppressor will be blown up fast. unless you make it so the suppressor can extends out in a "A" shape. but i have never seen such a device.

It would work on the principle that recoil starts from ignition, from when the gases and the bullet start moving forward in the barrel (i.e. not just on venting at the muzzle). The gases being internally momentarily vented backwards at their highest speed will at that moment cause a reduction in recoil. The can is designed to safely contain what it does.

Once they slow down and go in all directions inside the suppressor they are directionless overall, and thus no longer contribute or detract from recoil - until venting out the front of the suppressor at which point they again produce some recoil but at that stage they have lost much of their velocity (energy). So I agree it's a bit academic whether the internal brake does much. What IS happening with a suppressor is that gases lose velocity/energy, so that when they exit from the front of the suppressor they may have similar volume and mass but much less velocity/energy. It also means the suppressor reduces recoil by other mechanisms than merely adding inertial mass to the rifle system.

I had a discussion with, I think it was @gundoc, and he insisted the internal brake did make a difference. If we view gases traveling forwards as increasing recoil, gases traveling backwards decreasing recoil, and gases traveling in mixed directions as being net zero for recoil, that makes sense.

Originally Posted by sheep

Hi, my current long range rifle is a 308 Tikka T3x superlite with a muzzle brake.

The recoil is too much for my shoulder to handle. Is a matter of time it will be dislocated. What can I do to manage the recoil?

Thanks.

Cast bullets

Directional brake
Will reduce recoil far more than any suppressor
If you hand load, load lighter pills
Suppressed 308s shoot like pusy cats so a braked one must be far better

My experience...... I never used to have any problems with recoil/muzzle blast. Then a few years ago i had a couple of strokes. After 20-odd years of driving mostly American trucks, my hearing was pretty much fucked, so muzzle blast was a non-issue, though I did use muffs when practicing. Then, a few months ago, my brother came out here with his Ruger Model 77 mark II in .300WM With the heavy Laminate stock and a muzzle brake, to sight it in. It's a fucking canon. Anyway after firing 3 rounds I knew I had developed not just a flinch, but a veritable cringe. The sonic boom, seemed to send breakers through my injured brain. I couldn't/wouldn't take another shot that day, and the headache was a bastard. I've been shooting only my .22LR since then and I KNOW I'm going to have to work on this fucking flinch when I can steel myself to shoot my baby (.270wsm) again. The rifle (x-bolt) is something I will never get rid of, but it's gonna take some work to sort myself, And I've loaded some rounds that I need to validate. It's something I look forward to with some trepidation, instead of joy. So thanks, fellas for all the advice regarding recoil management. I'll be reading this thread often in the near future.

Recoil is directly proportional to the weight of the firearm versus the weight and velocity of the ejecta (powder and bullet). The effect of recoil can be mitigated by the fit of the firearm to the user, shooting stance, and add-on items such as recoil pad, muzzle brake, and suppressor. Assuming the fit and stance are correct then the greatest reduction effect will be from a properly designed suppressor and a good recoil pad. A proper suppressor design will incorporate an effective muzzle brake coupled with an efficient baffle design. Over-barrel suppressors use the rear chamber to reduce gas pressure exhausted from the brake while the baffle design should consist of a series of shaped chambers that use the front surface of each chamber to absorb some of the forward force of the ejecting gases, thus tending to exert a counter-recoil force. The sound suppression also makes things a lot more pleasant for the shooter and tends to reducing flinching (refer to 'stance' mentioned earlier). A good suppressor is, overall, more effective than a good muzzle brake.

Originally Posted by gundoc

Recoil is directly proportional to the weight of the firearm versus the weight and velocity of the ejecta (powder and bullet). The effect of recoil can be mitigated by the fit of the firearm to the user, shooting stance, and add-on items such as recoil pad, muzzle brake, and suppressor. Assuming the fit and stance are correct then the greatest reduction effect will be from a properly designed suppressor and a good recoil pad. A proper suppressor design will incorporate an effective muzzle brake coupled with an efficient baffle design. Over-barrel suppressors use the rear chamber to reduce gas pressure exhausted from the brake while the baffle design should consist of a series of shaped chambers that use the front surface of each chamber to absorb some of the forward force of the ejecting gases, thus tending to exert a counter-recoil force. The sound suppression also makes things a lot more pleasant for the shooter and tends to reducing flinching (refer to 'stance' mentioned earlier). A good suppressor is, overall, more effective than a good muzzle brake.

To add to that, if the rifle is pulled back into the body to the extent there is the body and the rifle become one mass in the same way the scope and action are one mass....Thus the equal and opposite reaction from the projectile being forced forwards is pushing the body + rifle mass rearwards as opposed to just the rifle. So instead of 8 pounds thumping you, your round is pushing back on closer to 80 pounds....and in my case closer to 180 pounds....

Thanks everyone for advise. The discussion pretty much cover everything possible to manage recoil. Freaking awesome, the best forum to date. Cheers!

@sheep...have you read that article yet????
did it make sence/compute with you????

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

@sheep...have you read that article yet????
did it make sence/compute with you????

Yes, read it twice. Awesome article. Have to put it in practice.

Eat more pies and hold it tight and close, like the rifle is your lover. It got me through a couple boxes of hornady leverevolution 45/70 out of an 18" henry, haha

problem is that a muzzle break is going to make the noise louder and that adds to the perceived recoil. I would fit a suppressor and go with a light bullet and try that out. also, no offence, but did you go from .22lr to .308? I'm over 60 years old, and have arthritis ,and i regularly shoot a 14'' barrel .308. its not that i'm tough; its because over the years i learned to shoulder the gun properly and not think about the recoil but the trigger and sights.