Its about how you hold your mouth...

Here’s an 8 shot group from today. A mix of new and old cases, and 180BT and 180AB Noslers, 300winmag. Remington, bedded but standard stock.

The rifle was held in the free recoil sort of hold. My left hand just tucked around by the butt, but not touching. Forend sitting on a bag, rear bag just behind the pistol grip. 100 yards.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...sf3654a09.jpeg

Then, I maintained the same bag set up, but placed my left hand on the objective bell of the scope and applied a little downwards pressure to firm the rifle into the front bag. I sometimes do this. The 2 shots I fired from this hold were 1” higher and 1.5” to the right of the previous group.

What I’m wondering is, if the rifle had a stiffer stock would it be this sensitive to how its held, or is it something that all rifles do (but I have never taken any notice previously)?

Incidentally, I’ve been shooting shit groups for 50 years :)

Your loads must be spot on mate :)

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Your loads must be spot on mate :)

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Yeah, its beaut. Thanks to you. 75.5grn R22, 3150 fps.
What do you think about the shift in impact. Is that your experience too?

Cheers

What shift :D

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Originally Posted by Toby

What shift :D

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Nah, the shift was on another target. It was an obvious shift in impact with the downwards pressure. I probably confused things by not posting a pic of the second target.

I've found the standard remington synth stocks with their pressure points at the fore-end of the stock can be sensitive to varied pressure. In particular, I found bracing forward into the bipod gave me quite a different POI to neutral bipod pressure or shooting sticks. I assume as you brace forward on the bipod it'll be pulling the front of the stock downwards and away from the barrel slightly, lowering pressure on those forward bedding points.

I also got some pretty wild results when using a rest in a weird position that squeezed the fore-end a bit much. Big vertical shift.

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Originally Posted by StrikerNZ

I've found the standard remington synth stocks with their pressure points at the fore-end of the stock can be sensitive to varied pressure. In particular, I found bracing forward into the bipod gave me quite a different POI to neutral bipod pressure or shooting sticks. I assume as you brace forward on the bipod it'll be pulling the front of the stock downwards and away from the barrel slightly, lowering pressure on those forward bedding points.

I also got some pretty wild results when using a rest in a weird position that squeezed the fore-end a bit much. Big vertical shift.

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Cheers.
The pressure point as been relieved. Its free floating.

you've changed:D

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Cheers.
The pressure point as been relieved. Its free floating.

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Perhaps if the stock is quite flexible it does touch if downward pressure is applied?
My 300 doesn't group well unless the forend is held down firmly but I have never shot it applying pressure from the top.

Here’s a better comparison of the shift in the 2 holds.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...s28a54bea.jpeg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...psa6fe5518.jpg

I would suggest using a method of shooting that works for you and sticking with it, why go from free recoil to holding down?

‘Cos it never occurred to me not to, until I tried these two holds and saw these results.
I experimented because this particular rifle seemed to be shifting its impact between sessions, and then it dawned on me it might because it was sensitive to how I held it.

Any slight change in marksmanship principles will likely show a change on the target.
There is a definite shift as a result of the pressure you applied. (Is it a consistent shift do you know?)
Whether it is due to the stock, harmonics or position you just need to find out what works and stick to it imo.
Just lining up slightly off when you get behind the rifle or slightly forcing your position with out you noticing, will/can cause a impact shift like that. Especially if it is waterline, in my experience.

Nice group Tahr must have been holding your mouth right, you now just need to remember how you held your mouth so you can do it again :D

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Originally Posted by R93

Any slight change in marksmanship principles will likely show a change on the target.
There is a definite shift as a result of the pressure you applied. (Is it a consistent shift do you know?)
Whether it is due to the stock, harmonics or position you just need to find out what works and stick to it imo.
Just lining up slightly off when you get behind the rifle or slightly forcing your position with out you noticing, will/can cause a impact shift like that. Especially if it is waterline, in my experience.

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Thanks for this. Its a consistent shift. It has always been either spot on, or higher to the right as in the pics and it has always baffled me. Im glad I’ve got to the bottom of it, and thanks for your help.

My field shooting is ok. The last 21 deer for 19 shots, but mostly Im either free hand, or free recoil over my pack. In any event, the actual shift in impact here probably doesn’t count for stuff all in the full context of hunting conditions. But I just like things to be right.

Everyone's comments so far are correct and in the right context.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Thanks for this. Its a consistent shift. It has always been either spot on, or higher to the right as in the pics and it has always baffled me. Im glad I’ve got to the bottom of it, and thanks for your help.

My field shooting is ok. The last 21 deer for 19 shots, but mostly Im either free hand, or free recoil over my pack. In any event, the actual shift in impact here probably doesn’t count for stuff all in the full context of hunting conditions. But I just like things to be right.

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I reckon I shoot a very similar style to you whether I am shooting paper or animals and have a rest. It may be the most fickle and easily influenced way of shooting, but I seem to get consistent results as well.
If I inadvertently load anything up, I have issues.

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Originally Posted by Neckshot

you've changed:D

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Nah. But have had the 300mag for a few years and use it this time of the year when the deer are out scoffing and there is the odd longer shot. Kawekas in 3 weeks time and I intend to take it so was doing a bit of a sight in.

But I really favour the lighter calibres and use the 223 or 243 the most.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

21 deer for 19 shots. I'd be happy with that. I've done 20 deer for 19 shots but not 21.

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Whoops. 19 for 21. :)

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Yeah, its beaut. Thanks to you. 75.5grn R22, 3150 fps.
What do you think about the shift in impact. Is that your experience too?

Cheers

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Bloody hell, I didn't think a 300WM could get 180's going that fast, that's honking along!

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

Bloody hell, I didn't think a 300WM could get 180's going that fast, that's honking along!

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Got the load from the Nosler manual. It chronos at 3150 which is slightly faster than the velocity in the manual. And the trajectory confirms the chrono.
Brians 300 winmag is doing 3100 with IMR 4831 & 180 grn. So it doesn’t seem to be exceptional for the calibre.

Are you happy with the scope now? that group with that load and calibre is bloody good.

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Originally Posted by nor-west

Are you happy with the scope now? that group with that load and calibre is bloody good.

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'Scope's fine. It was how I was changing from free recoil to holding it down by the 'scope bell after the recoil began to bite me a bit.
Brian and I are wondering when you plan on delivering the gift...264WM? :)

Just re-doing the stock:thumbsup:

When you pushed down on the rifle you essentially made the rest 'harder' and the rifle recoiled away from it, hence the higher to the right POI.
My advice? Stop doing it.