Long range shooting course

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Originally Posted by Norway;29328[COLOR="#FF0000"

]Wind isn't that difficult,[/COLOR] stick to the basics and add/remove a fixed amount if you encounter certain terrain features. There'll always be a wind that cannot be doped, but there are a lot of "impossible" winds that's just a matter of method. Then it is fairly easy to just hammer the target twice and have a very good chance of hitting.

I find that controlling shoulder pressure and relaxing right arm under stress is a huge obstacle for many.

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Do you win alot of competitions?

Depends, do they involve a biscuit T? I reckon I would give the accountant with no fingers from Sons of Anarchy a run for his money.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

I think you would be surprised how few people are interested in competitions El Boracho.

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Competitions are fun and don't leave you much room for illusions about your ability or the efficiency of your system, if you shoot the right sort of competition...

I wish there were cool practical LR comps in Nz.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

I think you would be surprised how few people are interested in competitions El Boracho.

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comps are a great way to test your theory's and pitt yourself against your peers -I tend to listen to those that have Identifiable track records .

I used to compete when I was a kid but not anymore, but I often took a trophy and also had a few coveted ones before I binned them. I'm not willing to travel to shoot a few shots and we hardly have F-class here. Spare time is about the most valuable thing I have.

It actualle became a credibility problem for my writing, hence the witness in my last blog. (he is famous in scandinavian hunting circles)

I dig competing and do a lot of club shooting but now enjoy the open terrain contests .Its a shame I am not close to the type of terrain you shoot Thomas but in the upper north Island where i live you'd have to travel a long way to find it .
Do you pass through Auckland on your trips as a lesson session as you've done in the south would be popular I am sure if you had the time

Tussock there is a big difference when shooting time pressured comps than having a plink in your own time -it shows your flaws up as I had happen to me a while back in the mountains which is a place not at all familiar to me . Even the best come second

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Originally Posted by el borracho

comps are a great way to test your theory's and pitt yourself against your peers -I tend to listen to those that have Identifiable track records .

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I know heaps of people that could shoot the peanuts out of a flys shit that do not compete. The only regular competitions for LR shooting is F class if I am not mistaken.
I would love to do it sometime but because it is so popular, they only run it in the North Island.
For now I would rather spend my money with the NZCTA and the hundreds of affiliated clubs as I can win some back if I am up to it.

Im not going to shoot as much Fclass in the next season and spend more time in the field and hopefully at some different locations and terrain features .Fclass is fun but I hate shooting 36 rounds from 9-4pm long day with little trigger time

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Originally Posted by el borracho

Tussock there is a big difference when shooting time pressured comps than having a plink in your own time -it shows your flaws up as I had happen to me a while back in the mountains which is a place not at all familiar to me . Even the best come second

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How many overseas competitions have you shot in EL B?

none ,to poor to travel.South Islands as far as I go thsee days. I want to shoot down there more,great country

Shame, I have a similar view as you and I tend to only listen to people with identifiable international track records. :thumbsup:






Not true at all but I had to say it.

why international,some great shooters right here :thumbsup:

F class seems awfully uninteresting and not particularly practical.

its ok and test's your wind calls

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Originally Posted by el borracho

its ok and test's your wind calls

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Possibly a dumb question but.... do they have wind flags in F-Class ?

F-class seams like a great oppurtunity for people to learn and sort their workstreams in a controlled environment.

If you have trouble sorting the workload on a mowed firing line you sure as hell will struggle to do it properly in the field. I'd love to do F- class but I'd just shoot with my hunting rig.

I wouldn't care for placement but I would glean towards the best and see how far I still have to reach.

There's always someone better or someone who does certain parts better.

Competitions are a brilliant way to meet these.

I thought myself to be on top of my game a couple of times only to learn "not really".

Maybe I am now? I'm eagerly awaiting my next fall. These have in the past been very useful.

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Originally Posted by el borracho

Im not going to shoot as much Fclass in the next season and spend more time in the field and hopefully at some different locations and terrain features .Fclass is fun but I hate shooting 36 rounds from 9-4pm long day with little trigger time

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And you wonder why so many of us are not interested in competitive shoots.

It works as well but you frequently hit performance ceilings and it will take time to identify and break through.

...recently bought a book about olympic level shooting. Bloody useful for my positionbuilding and the result reflects in ELR. (these guys shoot 6mm groups prone)

...so I wasn't on top three weeks ago but I have certainly improved since then.

Time spent vs shooting done is possibly my biggest gripe with competitions.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

And you wonder why so many of us are not interested in competitive shoots.

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Yep it is a major challenge to setting a shoot to keep people moving, shooting and interested throughout the day. Trying to set up a shoot that will sufficiently challenge all those attend and still get just about everyone good success rates is very difficult. Shoots that are simply too hard are difficult to get many people back to.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Im confident that F-Class would show up my flaws for F-Class.

In the mountains, I find I am rarely found under time constraints. More commonly, I am found asleep under a tree.

I shoot varmints. They are little. They run around, and they are a long way away when thats where I look. There are many of them in the hills who know my flaws.

Im of the opinion that honest self evaluation is key to improvement. As long as your fixated on where your at, and where you want to be, and put the time in you will get better.

I would enter competition for the fun of it, and to meet a few people. But in my experience, egos usually play a part. I couldnt be bothered.

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I really cant understand this attitude Tussock .Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

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Originally Posted by el borracho

I really cant understand this attitude Tussock .Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

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Ego eh? Well if Gillie does not mind I would like mention his father. He has no ego that he displayed yet would be one of the best service rifle shots I have seen. He won 5 or 6 Queens Medals with 2 different service rifles over as many years.
I remember him as a quiet unassuming bloke that went about his business quietly. He may have loved competing, but did it humbly.

Its the beauty of life R96 -different colours

Let me ask you also R96 did you quest to be in a top area of the army not get driven by your ego of wanting also to be better than average -I bet it did -use your ego well and go far NA noo na noo

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Im confident that F-Class would show up my flaws for F-Class.

In the mountains, I find I am rarely found under time constraints. More commonly, I am found asleep under a tree.

I shoot varmints. They are little. They run around, and they are a long way away when thats where I look. There are many of them in the hills who know my flaws.

Im of the opinion that honest self evaluation is key to improvement. As long as your fixated on where your at, and where you want to be, and put the time in you will get better.

I would enter competition for the fun of it, and to meet a few people. But in my experience, egos usually play a part. I couldnt be bothered.

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I have seen very few people in shooting competitions with big egos. I am assuming it is because the people with big egos get beaten the first time and because of their egos they don't want to come back and sacrifice winning for learning. Shooting is a sport where ego/confidence makes absolutely no difference.

A big ego doesnt mean theyre going to rub it in your face every opportunity but they might say yes I shoot very well .For some tall poppy cutter types thats just the end of the world . For me I dont give a flying rats arse -great if the person believes in themselves and confesses it so what .Confidence does help Savage1 ,it might not make you win but confidence is very important in all you do even if your not as good as you think you are.
I think youre better around a big ego than someone that want you to be at their level and never be any different to anyone else -tall poppy cutters -a dangerous breed that dont often want to recognize themselves

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Originally Posted by Savage1

I have seen very few people in shooting competitions with big egos. I am assuming it is because the people with big egos get beaten the first time and because of their egos they don't want to come back and sacrifice winning for learning. Shooting is a sport where ego/confidence makes absolutely no difference.

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Ego and confidence are different things. To be a top level shooter confidence is absolutely necessary. The mental game of shooting when you get to the top level is everything and if you are not confident that is reflected in your score. Ego and boasting about your prowess tends to help other people shooting but not necessarily your own. I have seen very few serious competitors with big egos. In my experience you are correct Savage1, the guys with big egos don't stay with the sport.

And Malcolm hasn't changed from your description R93. What i really like about him and a few others i have met along the way are that they queitly shoot well and are the first to help someone out or volunteer to help run a shoot as well as compete in it.

I bet Malcom likes winning and enjoys it like every body else -it does the ego wonders to get a few under the belt -when no ones listning he probably shouts and hops around yelling I beat you all you lame arses "YES" LOL

[QUOTE=veitnamcam;29616][/I][/B]

And you wonder why so many of us are not interested in competitive shoots.[/QUOTE

Another reason for the competitive type shoot that I want to run more often on the forum is it organizes people rather than have everybody shooting aimlessly "excuse the pun" and gives a day organization and goals to achieve . Growing in ability and knowledge makes people more excited and useful to themselves when using a rifle

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Originally Posted by el borracho

.Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

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el borracho, in part I agree with you: what you have called "tall poppy cutter syndrome" (usually just called "tall poppy syndrome" in NZ) can be a real problem.

-However, I don't believe that is necessarily the exclusive alternative to "ego". It may be an alternative to egotism, but often I believe with see the worst examples of "tall poppy syndrome" from those who are in fact 'egotistical' in nature. (usually occuring when their egos have been damaged by someone doing something better than them).

-Finally, I agree with you that "ego" may motivate some people to success. However, I believe that people can be motivated to success by its own merits, without the need for egotism. I would suggest that being motivated simply by ego may be dangerous, as a lack of 'success' would then by definition damage the ego, and potentially remove enjoyment from the activity.

-A final danger to egotism lies in the way in which it is perceived/received by society. (I'm not picking a fight here simply showing a different view): "EGO drives people to be better", but many would also argue that: 'Ego can drive people to be Dickheads, even in the face of reason'.

Interesting developmet :D
Not quite understanding the cultural references (too see me try and pick up a kiwi girl would be hilarious to onlookers, there are palpable differences in social code if minor).

Back to the LR courses:
- No I don't think I'll hold any courses on North Island. I love SI and that is where I'll go. The courses I hold (it's not really a course) is not really anything special, they are just basic introductions - putting the marksmanship principles into a workstream. There's plenty of expertise locally to hold the same course and better as you'd have more time and can do followups. People listen to me only because of a perceived skill, but I'm not doing anything you're not - I'm just systematic.

From what little I have gleaned, kiwi shooters are lacking in confidence but not skill. Link to last course and here the shooters grasped the principles quickly and were shortly shooting head sized targets at 7-800 meters with rifles as "unsuitable" as a Remington 7. In a short span as one day is, only forced progression can be offered, leaving the shooter to pick off bad habits and assimilate on his own accord later. All I can do is to repeat the same message again and again, there's no voodoo in physics and you must have the basics. Put the basics into a workstream routine and you'll see how remarkably effective you'll shoot.

You have shooters that are technically highly proficient, hunters that are highly experienced (I have met quite a few now, and kiwi hunters are on the average as good as they come) and participants who gladly share and put in an effort for others.

My hope is that you'd stop looking to the US motormouths, replace "Norways LR CD" with an updated local version* and put what you already have into an accessible and inclusive system.

(* I'd suggest you divide various topics out to board members, telling them to make 3-10 "childrens book pages" (tons of pics, little text), collect them, put them in order and publish as a pdf.)

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Originally Posted by Norway

Not quite understanding the cultural references

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Dont worry mate, I dont get half of it here either. Bit like the time at work with numerous girlies around as we talked about food, I took time to reminisce about as a rookie in the job on early turn at about 7am I used to love to tuck into a fresh juicy growler.....

Apparently it has nothing to do with pies here :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

On a more serious note, I like what Norway said. It was kind.

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Yeah, Pretty complimentary to NZ hunters and those of you who were lucky enough to shoot with him.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Possibly a dumb question but.... do they have wind flags in F-Class ?

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????

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

????

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Google says "Yes" Greg:

6.9.1 Wind Flag—Wind flags should be displayed at various distances between the firing line and the targets.
It is recommended that the flags be placed at 200, 500 and 700 yards. It is further recommended that the flag be
48” by 18” at tip and 12’ in length. This flag will be of two colors, red and yellow.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Norway, if we came to Norway, we would not stand a chance with your women Im guessing. But you clearly do lack a little knowledge of our culture. Your a tall, non disfigured man with a funny accent. Walk into a Dunedin pub at 11:50pm on Saturday and say "Hi, Im from Norway" and you could have VD by Sunday.

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Had many a messy night in Dunners when the only range open in the SI was Waitati. The Cook IIRC was the local STD factory:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by R93

The Cook IIRC was the local STD factory:thumbsup:

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-Sure was :thumbsup: For the ultimate experience: Did you ever end up stumbling into "KC's"?? It was a dodgy upstairs nightclub on George St (a 4 minute crawl from the Cook).

Universally known as "K-Sleaze" -The dodgy owner used to stand at the top of the stairs giving Lollipops to girls as they came in.....I think I nearly caught HIV from the glassware.