Looking for opinions on a hunt i just came back from .
I missed a shot on a deer 180m away on a fairly sharp downward slope.
Should i have aimed low because of the slope ?Or at that distance would i be okay aiming dead on target ?
Looking for thoughts on this or tips for downward slope shooting.
For reference , im using a 308 with a 3-9-40 scope .
I was with my son when shooting 4 goats at close to 200 yds, sharply downhill. I told him to hold low on their bodies. For the first shot he actually held halfway down a leg. The shot went over the Goats back ( into a stream throwing up a great splash ). The next three shots were aimed under the goats feet and he nailed three for three, all centre body hits.
Pretty sure his rifle, 270W, is sighted dead on at 200 yds.
If you have a 100m/yard zero then it would cancel out any elevation adjustment. For example if I put in a steep angle into my calculator for that range it gives me no adjustment.
What kind of zero do you have?
I have a 200M Zero , although after today im thinking of changing it to a 100 m zero because it over complicates close range for me personally .
So i should have aimed much lower then ?
I was holding at the base of organs.
If the slope was 45 degrees, your 180m line-of-sight would be 127m true ballistic range (TBR). I don’t know your dope but I’m guessing that will be around 3” high, so the shot should still have connected with something if you were aiming low.
Shooting steeply up or down can be tricky as your shooting position can cause the rifle to jump differently against your shoulder. Were you shooting off the same sort of rest you practice with? That can also have an effect.
I run a 250m zero but then the trajectory of my 7WSM is way flatter than a .308. I’d recommend practicing uphill & downhill shots from awkward positions before changing your zero.
Correction. I remember his zero is 250 yds.Quote:
Originally Posted by 30.06king
I would guess your hold should have been lower. I have seen closer shots at less steep angles shoot over the top of deer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Canty
Not easy but the best thing would be duplicating the downhill / uphill angle next time you're on thd hill and trying a shot or two at an inert target where you can see impacts to see where your shots land. Personally I think this will help more than going by ballistics charts in this case.
The comment mentioning TBR (true ballistic range) is pretty much on the money - the bullet drop is only relevant to the actual horizontal distance the bullet travels so on a 180m shot at 45deg down hill the drop needs to be worked out on 127m horizontal distance.
As he said, 50m at that range should not be earth shattering in terms of difference - but the elevation issue creates a couple more things that can throw you out including making an error in the range estimation (estimation error either long or short), shooting position causing you to shoot high as you drop the rifle down against your shoulder, and just missing through being out of position (which we don't like to admit but have all done). Generally on uphill/downhill shots you shoot high and the shot clears over the animal's back, but the out of position factor often means you can't spot where your own shot lands and this is a further complication - hard to fix the error when you don't know what it is.
The other factor is windage is worked out on the full shooting distance, not the TBR (horizontal distance to target as though you were shooting flat). Can end up in the rush using TBR for windage and not allowing enough correction for wind effect on the pill, but usually this doesn't cause a clean miss?
Would have shot maybe 8cm above point of aim or about 2cm higher than normal poi @ 180m flat. Depending on where you aimed, eg high shoulder, you should still have connected. 308 using 150gr @ 2750 fps, sighted in 200m for reference.
spend more time at a shooting range and practice.
Probably should consider that sometimes we just plain miss. For no other reason than operator error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Canty
As above maybe you just missed.
Consider also that if steeply above an animal your point of aim needs to be higher on the animal to pass the bullet threw the middle of the vitals as it angles downward threw the body and the reverse is true if steeply above.
you probably just missed
pulled the shot
something between you and the deer got in the way
many other reasons you might have "just missed"
it happens don't eat yourself up over it the deer is now just that bit wiser, so it's learned its lesson as well
check your zero to make sure it wasn't that apart from that you will probably never know
a downward slope will not make you completely miss at 180m so rest assured it's not that.... just chalk it up to experience and move on
we all miss on the odd occasion thats "just hunting"
Cheers for the advice from all .
No doubt it was a bad shot but just wanted to gauge if shooting down hill like that would play into why i missed.
Back to the range i go i think .
Thanks again
Try a few scenarios on a ballistic calculator.
For the 7mm08 30 degrees at 200m give 0.2 mRad (2/3 moa) difference.
At 300m its 0.3 mRad (1 moa).
At 500 m its 0.7 mRad (2 moa).
So, I would only take slope into account from 300m out.
30 degrees is pretty steep and difficult to get into position for.
Attachment 266489
Presuming you're zeroed for the horizontal distance or TBR then I've found that I need to aim higher on the animal so that the bullet passes through the vitals rather than skimming the underbelly. I had this problem a number of times. I've since focused on the exit point for downhill shots and aimed through the animal for that. Often that means a high shoulder shot which helps to drop the animal plus it goes out the bottom opposite side lung.
I have my 308 sighted in for 180m which means for bush stalking it hits zero at 30m which is my usual distance for the bush, then 100m it's 2 inches or so high and bang on at 180m. Most of the time I'm either up close and personal or 150-250 away.
So not always practical, but if you have a miss like that, It can really help to pick a rock etc, and shoot as near the same shot as possible. Will tell you if it was a ballistic issue or a mistake on your part, or a rifle/scope problem.
What you are talking about is called angle cosine shooting. Its something we used to learn about when I was doing maritime security. Neil also covers it on the Nortrack Precision course. Of course if you don't practice it you quickly forget it, or at least I have. A lot of rangefinders can be set to give you the "true" distance to the target, which removes the need for memorising formulas and so on.
Here's Major Plaster's article on it, although there might be better techniques out there now.
https://majorjohnplaster.com/wp-cont...d-Downhill.pdf
Lots to think about , thank you all .
Regardless of 100m or 200m zero, a shoulder shot at 180m should connect. I presume just a stuff up on shooters behalf if all else is setup correct. Easy to do when shooting a steep angle, we all have those days.
I played around with shooting down hill at steep angles a few years ago with my 260, at the time the rifle was zeroed at 125 metres. A target was set at 400 metres steeply down hill from me at line of sight, but was only 180 metres on the level. Result, a 2" four shot group at 7 1/2" below point of aim. Some 5 years later, I was shooting at a hind at 350 metres at a similar angle, so held over her shoulders by about 4", a clean miss!! she looked over her shoulder to see what the noise was in the rocks behind her and then she left! I had changed the zero on that rifle to 250 metres so was shooting well high. As someone once said "Hair not Air", no truer words could be said.
If you want a good visual explanation of shooting on steep angles and how it works on trajectory then jump to 6min on the vid in the link below.
https://youtu.be/ztvJxTuXCck?si=vmdz1EC2Sf2gU6Km
Thanks for this .
It's a shit, and it's hard to practice. Most ranges are flat so dealing with incline/decline is not something most people really have to think about until they're out there.
I used to squirrels with an air rifle a lot. Small 6 inch long animals. 90% shots were steep upwards in trees.
I learned that a 30 meter shot had a 20 meter flat trajectory.
The same principle applies steep downhill.
I once read an article on this about shooting mountain game at long ranges.
The thumb rule was to hold a bit low if the angle was steep upwards or down.
Bullet may have struck a twig or a leaf?
See if you can set the shot up again but this time with a paper target. See where it hits? Or at least a dirt bank
