Thread: More 22lr Ammo/Accuracy Testing - New Toy!! Pic Heavy

Originally Posted by T.FOYE

I've been faffing about with my 10/22 and found that my nice tight 50m groups aren't helping at all out past 100m. I need to be clipping a bunch of hares and bunnies on a friends property (that i may or may not have neglected all year). Hoping to make shots out to 120m? or is that me dreaming?

What ammo is likely to have a better bc, 1/2" at 50m and be available in Auckland? I was thinking that SK magazine stuff might be a step up from cci but i think from looking at your results it may be similar. Not gonna bother with HP either. They fall out of the air like .177 slugs

10/22 competition at 100y with cci standard. Shot 3 groups all similar

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@Rush 17HMR for bunnies is considerably better for general bunny hunting in my experience as long you don't mind the extra bang! I've tested 2 marlins and my savage and they have all shot constantly under MOA at 100m and you don't have to muck around with any dialing or holdover till past 120m. The only downside is they are pretty much as susceptible to wind as 22lr is so you'd need to keep that in mind. Here's some of my success

Over on Rimfire Central I've seen a report done by a guy who analysed hundreds of groups shot in the Lapua test range (this is a facility where you send your rifle in, they test it in a machine rest with as many different ammo grades/batches as you care to pay for, and then you can buy as much of the best batch as you want). The test equipment simultaneously measures both the 50M and 100M groups of string. This is a very sophisticated operation in completely controlled conditions.

Anyhoo - after analyzing hundreds of group measurements he found that the group size of 22 RF ammo increases by a factor of 2.81 each time you double the distance. So if your rifle will shoot 0.5" groups at 50M, then it will be averaging 1.405" groups at 100M. Many folks of course tried to argue the toss with this, but its pretty hard to dispute statistically valid results. I've shot a fair amount of 22 now (and I know my own weaknesses in both technique and equipment), and studied a lot.

A hell of a lot of the 22 accuracy claims people post on the internet (and this forum) don't really stand up to scrutiny.

And thats why I have considerable respect for @Sluthy , theres no bullshit in what he posts up, and we can all learn from it.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Anyhow - after analyzing hundreds of group measurements he found that the group size of 22 RF ammo increases by a factor of 2.81 each time you double the distance. So if your rifle will shoot 0.5" groups at 50M, then it will be averaging 1.405" groups at 100M. Many folks of course tried to argue the toss with this, but its pretty hard to dispute statistically valid results.
A hell of a lot of the 22 accuracy claims people post on the internet (and this forum) don't really stand up to scrutiny.

I've been building and/or buying quality 22's for a long time and I think the above words are VERY close to the mark - I work on a factor of 3 when comparing 50 vs 100 yard CONSISTENT groups - I don't bother with group shooting 22's past 100 as I think it proves nothing.

Sounds realistic guideline to me, but it is not a fixed all-rifle ratio. I had one standard barrel sporter 22LR that was very good but not the best at 50m - group averages around 0.4" - but take it out to 100m and it was a stunner. There it averaged (four consecutive groups) 0.68" in bench test. For some reason its groups simply did not open up like other rifles. Another outstanding sporter 22 averaged 0.29" for group set at 50m, but about 1.1" at 100m. A number of poss contributing factors but I never quite figured out reason for outstanding 100m accuracy given more average 50m data in some rifles...

IMO loose 50m results but tighter 100m groups are more than likley to be parallax error up close or shooting cadence.

Originally Posted by suthy

So here's the new toy...Bergara B14r, Zerotech Trace 4.5-27, Leupold 20moa rail & Burris signature rings.

1416 is currently going for 1699 bare, or 1999 with fairly decent suppressor, rings, and a Minox 3-9. It is a far more accurate gun from a maker who has far longer history in making high end 22 and has won more than 90% of all gold medals.

What am I missing? What is the attraction of the B14 - which is needs to be significantly upgraded to shoot equally well - and is about the same price in the first place?

Not all 1416's (or 54's for that matter) are created equal. I've had two 1416's in recent times that shot well, but still nothing like Sluthy's one, or even as well as the Bergara. My results from a current 10-22 "factory " HB runs rings round what I was able to achieve with either of them. I have doubts about the ability of folks to repeat many of the 22RF accuracy claims I see made on the forum and until the results are repeatable they don't count for squat, Anschutz factory targets being a particular case in point.

The bare B14R cost is actually just short of the scoped suppressed 1416.
My next purchase will be a B14R. Why, because I can and it's my interest. Life's too short particularly at my age.
The B14R at this stage also as I cannot currently justify a Vudoo.

BTW I already have Match 54 and Match 64 Annies (albeit old but very capable), a very accurate Walther Silo (also old, and out shoots my Annies) and a LA101.
They all get range time.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Not all 1416's (or 54's for that matter) are created equal.

You're dead right. A while back I looked at a second hand 17 series Match 54 in excellent condition. I tried everything with that rifle - different ammo, different screw torques, mounted my best scope on it, all sorts of different hold techniques on the bench, slight upward presure on the barrel. I just couldn't get it to shoot to my expectations and returned it to the owner. If I'd wanted a "pretty", "name" rifle it would have been perfect. But I want shooters. Also its stock was abysmal for bench shooting.
Likewise I had a very nice Weihrauch Production. It has gone, it wouldn't shoot.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

What am I missing? What is the attraction of the B14 ?

I've been buying Anschutz since the mid 60's & always have several models on hand. If you're into refined, blue and timber rim fires, the B14R is not for you! The Anschutz rifles which win medals are not your typical 1416 sporter designs. Anschutz have now discontinued the 64 action production though there are still quite a few models for sale.
I bought a B14R only because I like 22's & wanted to see why these 700 clones are all the rage at the moment. Based on a sample of ONE, the B14R I have is up there with the best functioning 22 bolt actions I've owned. It's a little ammo picky but with proven lot numbers of SK/Lapua, it will outshoot my 1808 Running Boar, is very close to both my 1710 DHB's and my 1761 (many up-grades) will eat it! Last week, a friend of mine (competitive BR shooter) borrowed our B14R and shot a 245/250 score on the SSAA IRB target with his first touch of the rifle - He now has a B14R on order! Here's 50 warm up shots (50 metres outdoors) from 2 days ago - I'm shooting my 1761 and my wife is shooting the Vudoo for the first time:



I've been sitting on the fence watching the development of the Vudoo since 2017 - I recently bought a V22R based on my experience with the Bergara & so far, it looks like money well spent.
Would I swap any of my "pretty" rim fires for a 700 clone? No way - There is a place for both & it just depends on how you plan to use the rifle.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Likewise I had a very nice Weihrauch Production. It has gone, it wouldn't shoot.

That sounds familiar, Glen....I had one that wouldn't shoot too good either! I had it threaded and screwed in a 3 groove Benchmark - It shoots OK now!!!! Hope you're on the mend, mate!

I have no detail on this but Anschutz 1415/1416s evidently had connection with Savage - some variants made by Savage and some by Anschutz. Might account for variation??

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=522824

Did range test a Weihrauch HW60J (albeit in 22 WMR) and that was a brilliant shooter. Straight down to high 0.2s at 50m, varying up to 0.4" through 3 types of ammo. Too pretty in the woodwork for heavy shooting from the truck but delightful wee rifle.

Nice variety of higher end 22s available now - the Annie 1416, Bergara B14, Howa 1100, Ruger Precision setups etc. I would like to hear some experienced user comment on this Howa - standard or heavy barrel, real world bench accuracy, quality, strengths and weaknesses etc. Interesting looking item and just $899 with entry level scope.

Sadly, not so much demand for field 22s in Canterbury these days. We shoot 20-40 rabbits per outing whereas 7-15 years ago we could top 1000 in an evening. Had competitions for the fastest 100 - current record held by @gadgetman at about 45 minutes.. Nowadays fewer and taken at longer distances which means 22WMR/17s do the job better, and 223 best of all for our sites.

@Tentman Cheers mate, I don't see an point in exaggerating the truth with this sort of thing, results are results and they are what they are.

I'd agree with you for the most part with the accuracy @ 100m. I have a scope with half mil dots on my CZ 452, which when zero'd @ 50m the holdover works out to 65m, 75m, 85m, 95m, 105m etc per half mil at full magnification, I tested these holdovers I found the accuracy dropped off significantly with hollow points around the 85m-90m mark. Might have just been the conditions or me though.

However with the testing I did with the 1416 (sorry for harping on about it), it did produce some pretty good results @ 100m and 150m.

I think I posted these in my original thread but here are a few targets from 100m testing. It didn't seem to have the accuracy drop off I'd had previously with other rifles but it could just be I got lucky and the sample size is not really big enough.

@Ultimitsu If that pricing you are looking at for the 1416 is from Guncity, they have been out of stock for a long time and is not current. The only retailer that I think has any at the moment is reloaders and they are priced @ $1899 for a bare rifle with the standard stock so the B14r is in the same price range.

I did have my heart set on a 1712 silhouette sporter for quite some time but @ an extra $1000 I couldn't justify it and I though the 700 clone with the carbon wrapped/threaded barrel was pretty cool and different so I just went down that road. I reeaaallllly would like a Vudoo but I think they run close to 5k for a complete rifle (if you can find one) and this seemed like the next best thing given the results I'd seen off forums in the states.