Thread: More fragmentive .22 rounds?

I've been shooting with cci subsonic, out in Canterbury where the ground is 90% stones. Had a couple of shots go straight through hares and ricochet.
Any ideas for bullets that fragment a bit better? Not fussed on grains or sub/super, just need to be able to reliably bowl a hare out to 60 odd meters.

Got a hollow pointing die, could give the an excessively large hollow point see if it works. In ChCh so PM me wellcome to try.

The 22LR is extremely well known for it's ricochet potential, very difficult to remove it as it doesn't generally have the velocity or twist to help the projectile disappear

Originally Posted by flock

Got a hollow pointing die, could give the an excessively large hollow point see if it works. In ChCh so PM me wellcome to try.

I have a Waltz die with multiple inserts and have tested hollow pointing to beyond sensible levels and then fired them into a 200L open top drum full of water to recover the projectiles (shot from top down). Negligible difference fragmentation. Lead hardness seems to have a greater bearing on performance.

I recommend you hunt down the elusive .17HM2. Ricochet risk drops to 5%.

I've been using cci segmented quiet rounds for a while now and they seem to go pretty good. They hit with a whack even though they are only doing 710fps

That what stingers from CCI were advertised as ideal for.....

I dug this out of a corgi sized hare last night, 92m - 935fps impact velocity
370mm of penetration, and pretty much no loss of weight.
SK rifle match - subsonic solids.

17hmr.

Unfortunately a slow moving, "heavy" projectile is always going to be more prone to richochette than a fast light weight one.

I used CCI segmented subs (not the slower quiet version) to try and reduce the ricochet issue.
Still an issue, but the 3 segments are no longer heavy or even remotely aerodynamic, so they don't tend to go very far. They do make quite the whistling sound tho, so you know when they have gone through your target, and are airborne again.
As for killing potential - pretty good. Normally one entry and 3 exit wounds.
Ended up using a 17 hornet and frangible projectiles for the properties with ricochet risks , and ricochets were a thing of the past. Pity it's an expensive rifle to feed compared to the 22lr.

Do solids bounce more? I havent hunted in that stoney ground so dont know.

I do know you can bounce .22 bullets off all sorts of other surfaces. Its all about the angle of approach of bullet to ground

Originally Posted by Fee Knicks

Do solids bounce more? I havent hunted in that stoney ground so dont know.

I do know you can bounce .22 bullets off all sorts of other surfaces. Its all about the angle of approach of bullet to ground

Absolutely, they tend to penetrate further, deform less & cause less terminal damage than a hollow point

I have been using the 45 grain CCI Suppressor Small Game bullets, extremely consistent & accurate in my T1X & others I have shot it in, not very expandy though so wouldn't suit the OP's situation

Originally Posted by Beetroot

17hmr.

Unfortunately a slow moving, "heavy" projectile is always going to be more prone to richochette than a fast light weight one.

+1 for this. The Rossi 8117 is on sale it GC, $399 new with an 18" threaded barrel. We got one last year and have never looked back (and I share my 22s suppressor with it just fine). Ammo is more expensive but it's a never miss kind of deal, so you use less and my kid whacked a bunny with it at 180m - so all of a sudden your circle of death expands out quite a bit.

I wouldn't overstate this ricochet problem with 22s. Here in Cantab our team doesn't go out for 2-3 shoots a year, popping 4-5 bunnies each time. Instead we have shot them very heavily, literally by the tens of thousands, and most with 22s. In this situation of maximum test for rifles/ammos/gear, not one team member has expressed ongoing concern with 22 ricochets. I've also owned and trialled 17M2, 17HMR, 22WMR, 223 etc as variants - all good, but not bought to replace 22 due to ricochets. They're for added range etc as Vulcan mentions. Some thoughts:

* We only use hollow points, not solids as we need optimum pill expansion to put them down hard every time. Some boys use sub setups, but more go with HV for max range and punch. A matter of preference. Our average kill distance 70 meters - rifles shot in for 75m. The boys did not miss much from 0-100m with 22s.
* Use very accurate 22s, ours all sub 1/2" groups at 50m at best - some quite a bit better. And be well 'shot-in' yourself - regular range time is important.
* Shot placement - its always centre/lower chest if head on, or centre/lower shoulder if side on. That stops them all quick. Deep penetration with the front on shots, and bone impact for shoulder shots (pill expansion) and almost zero out the other side.

Yes we all wing a few due to our own movement, bunny movement, wind etc, but quick precise follow up shots deal with that. If you're getting belly/centre body mass shots etc which will go straight through, then take the extra moment to still yourself, get that precision shot. Have never had a problem with straight thru ricochets, but for myself and the other team boys we've always focussed 100% on keeping ourselves and rifles very sharp.

Cheers Mudz

Stony ground is a bit of a specific case in point - but .22 in general can do some eye opening things. I know quite a few people that have worn a .22 pill that they just fired after it's bounced directly back at them from hitting something unexpected. Padlocks seem to be a frequent entry in the "bounce back" database, coupled with younger, braver firers of said rifle!

Subsonic anything is a mongrel for ricochet, they can ricochet off trees and the like so it's not just hard stuff. I've seen a .22 sub literally skipping across a dam after it went through a small rabbit. Things that I've done that have helped in the past when using .22's in ricochet-prone areas is go to HV or RFF (really f-ing fast) ammo as the faster it goes the more likely it is to break up and not whine off at some stupid angle, and try to go for pills with a flatter nose profile. The old orange box Aussie Powerpoint was great for this, the flatter front end seemed to be a lot less prone to the whine offs for some reason that I could never work out. The same company's Superspeed offering had the same grain, same velocity just a round nosed hollow point pill) was an utter mongrel for ricochet, we stopped using it on low lying farms in the CHB for that reason. The only difference was the nose profile of the pill, more rounded and a more narrow hollow point than the Powerpoint offering.

Solids definitely penetrate more, I used to use them on animals but had a few "horror stories" so stopped.

I had an issue with the Winchester 42gr subs, where they weren't expanding reliably, was getting a lot of pass throughs and long painful deaths.

I was playing with subsonics in a 300blk for a while and was getting a lot of ricochets with the 150gr cast lead bullets, even off grass.
I've had very few ricochets with normal cenferfire rounds, but the subsonic 300blk was doing it on almost every shot.