Thread: New range laws and shooting on unregistered ranges

Originally Posted by Nick-D

Do you have a source for the police policy interpretation? iirc the wording was changed to primary use for this exact reason, to exempt shooting on private land from the range regulations.

Imo the wording is fairly clear

Best place is the Police "Exposure Draft" Shooting Range Manual that should be released publicly in the next few weeks.

I think we'll need case law to set a precedent... if the Police interpretation stays in the coming Regulations.

Originally Posted by Gillie

Best place is the Police "Exposure Draft" Shooting Range Manual that should be released publicly in the next few weeks.

I think we'll need case law to set a precedent... if the Police interpretation stays in the coming Regulations.

Another option is the seek a declaratory statement/judgement from the High Court to clarify the interpretation.

Originally Posted by Gillie

Just to let you know the Police have taken the exact opposite view point as this. They read the Act as saying the public primarily use the land for shooting when they are there - Not the land's primary use is shooting.

Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts. The only thing that is legal is the 'plain English' meaning of the words as they are written in the legislation. Whilst the 'intent' of parliament can be taken into account when judges consider the meaning of a piece of legislation, if the written word has been poorly drafted and does not reflect the intent of parliament then that is tough luck for the prosecution as the written word takes precedence. Reading the legislation on ranges makes it obvious that it does not impact on casual shooting on any land where you have the legal right to be (DOC or private) provided it is not an organised or regular event shooting at 'inanimate targets', and is being done in a safe manner. Go to your mate's farm and develop your handloads or sight-in your rifle without getting all twisted about the regulations relating to range certification!

[QUOTE=gundoc;1286210]Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts.

The process is the punishment - it is no skin off the Police's nose if they take a case and lose, and in the meantime Joe Public has (possibly) an arrest, time and cost to fight it in court, all against a body that uses our money to fight us.

Your "many times" comment suggests that not much change is occurring with the blue group.

[QUOTE=Ross Nolan;1286245]

Originally Posted by gundoc

Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts.

The process is the punishment - it is no skin off the Police's nose if they take a case and lose, and in the meantime Joe Public has (possibly) an arrest, time and cost to fight it in court, all against a body that uses our money to fight us.

Your "many times" comment suggests that not much change is occurring with the blue group.

Not to mention it being used as a reason to label you not "fit and proper"

Originally Posted by gundoc

Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts. The only thing that is legal is the 'plain English' meaning of the words as they are written in the legislation. Whilst the 'intent' of parliament can be taken into account when judges consider the meaning of a piece of legislation, if the written word has been poorly drafted and does not reflect the intent of parliament then that is tough luck for the prosecution as the written word takes precedence. Reading the legislation on ranges makes it obvious that it does not impact on casual shooting on any land where you have the legal right to be (DOC or private) provided it is not an organised or regular event shooting at 'inanimate targets', and is being done in a safe manner. Go to your mate's farm and develop your handloads or sight-in your rifle without getting all twisted about the regulations relating to range certification!

I completely agree gundoc hence my later comment:

Originally Posted by Gillie

I think we'll need case law to set a precedent... if the Police interpretation stays in the coming Regulations.

Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

The Regulations can only be made as directed by the Act, they cannot subvert the Act which always remains the guiding document. Not that they would not try of course!

Originally Posted by Gillie

I completely agree gundoc hence my later comment:


Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

Appreciate the information and contribution gillie. It's important we keep as informed as possible.

This is incredibly sad. Why any of you are justifying excessive laws that are creating more problems rather than fixing any is beyond me.
Regardless of what the technicalities might be, this law puts anyone who wants to shoot a piece of paper or a gong on a farm at risk of loosing their license.
We have seen over and over again, the police abusing their powers and authority, and all you guys have to say is "not all of them are bad."

This country is doomed, because good people do nothing.

Originally Posted by Skirch

This is incredibly sad. Why any of you are justifying excessive laws that are creating more problems rather than fixing any is beyond me.
Regardless of what the technicalities might be, this law puts anyone who wants to shoot a piece of paper or a gong on a farm at risk of loosing their license.
We have seen over and over again, the police abusing their powers and authority, and all you guys have to say is "not all of them are bad."

This country is doomed, because good people do nothing.

So Skirch - tell us how you got right out of your comfort zone and "did something"

Originally Posted by Tentman

So Skirch - tell us how you got right out of your comfort zone and "did something"

Take it from somebody who knows, Skirch went way beyond his comfort zone for the past 3 years and spent endless hours fighting for our firearms rights. Way more than the average firearms owner that I have met. So lets just leave it at that shall we.

Good people tried, but the "consultation" process was just a token gesture to satisfy legislative requievents.

The police aren’t stopping the gangs using the streets for a gun ranges and houses as a back stop.

If you have a good relationship with your neighbour's you sight in your gun or spend 30 mins busting clays no one will report you so the police have no reason to come to your place. If you dont have that relationship or spend hours blasting away it may be a different story.
I know of 2 places on public land that are used for for sighting in and target practice one very close to a few lifestyle blocks and those people need to be stopped leaving empty shells and maccas wrappers ect. Not a good look.

The issue of shooting on farms for recreation or target practice was supposedly clarified during the select committee process - people raised the same concerns you guys are right now, and the wording was changed, and assurance given that it would not affect shooting on private land.

However I have heard it mentioned that the way police want it, you won't be allowed to have mates around to the farm for a pre duck season clay practice, nor, will you be able to do anything other than truly ad hoc sighting on your farm, without going through the range certification process.

Much like the supposed creation of an independent firearms authority, we have been sold short with weasel words. As the delegated regulatory authority, they can basically do whatever they want, and we just get to suck the Kumara.