NZDA requires FAL number

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Originally Posted by Fatberg

My observation is that they are afraid of rocking the boat too much, that their focus is on complying with every new bit of regulation that gets dreamed up, and that if they actually oppose anything it's completely ineffective.

I'm happy to be proved wrong if it's my perception that is off.

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If you are ever in Wellington go and meet them at National office. You will find that the CEO is a very highly qualified and respected lawyer. Could by earning many times more than what he is for nzda but is doing this because he loves our sport. They are well resourced with research assistance and are constantly lobbying for and defending our sport. There is a fabulous museum and display of heads there too. The whole thing is professional and forward looking. The one thing lacking is us 100% supporting them. And it wont happen if people keep pulling them down.

Maybe they need to look at ways to better communicate what they do.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

If you are ever in Wellington go and meet them at National office. You will find that the CEO is a very highly qualified and respected lawyer. Could by earning many times more than what he is for nzda but is doing this because he loves our sport. They are well resourced with research assistance and are constantly lobbying for and defending our sport. There is a fabulous museum and display of heads there too. The whole thing is professional and forward looking. The one thing lacking is us 100% supporting them. And it wont happen if people keep pulling them down.

Maybe they need to look at ways to better communicate what they do.

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Next time I'm there I will go for a look. I don't dispute their good intentions.
I do support the NZDA by paying whatever the membership is each year, going to the club night each month and talking to newbies to try make them feel welcome, going on party hunts etc.
On a personal level I really like the guys who run my local club. Highlighting some of the issues I see doesn't mean I don't support the NZDA.

I'm reminded of Billy Goats who seem to like butting heads for the pleasure of butting heads. Hell if I have to hand my license over to Hunting & Fishing or G.C..anytime I buy something significant I'm certainly going to let NZDA have it when they ask and without examining the dust under the bed with a microscope in case there's something bad there.

Sent it in this morning. On with the day....

NZCTA collect the same info but the club I'm affiliated through doesn't as it's held nationality they have no need.

Got the NZDA email too. Been a member for years. I believe NZDA when they say new regs compel them to hold members FAL info. They say it's to do with the fact that NZDA is now a registered rifle range under the new laws. I'll be sending my info in.
I recently joined the Tokoroa Shooting Complex and they recorded my FAL number as well, as they must under new regs.
I don't have any problem with it.

No they are a registered club, individual branches are also supposed to have registered as clubs as well and then if they have their own range register that separately or if they shoot on one they don't operate be approved users on that range

Surely to be a member of a well recognized organization like the NZDA which will be 75yrs old soon is a good thing. If by law they require to note FAL numbers of its members so be it. You may find one day that being a member of a club like this is part of showing you are responsible.

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Originally Posted by trooper90

Surely to be a member of a well recognized organization like the NZDA which will be 75yrs old soon is a good thing.

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That's quite coincidental the Nelson Branche's 75th birthday is celebrated tonight after our AGM

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds


Even had commemorative knives made for the occasion :)

:cool:

On a slight tangent does anyone have an update on the number of clubs not just deerstalkers that have completed the registration process? At the beginning of the month I believe it was only 27 in total excluding PNZ ones

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Originally Posted by trooper90

Surely to be a member of a well recognized organization like the NZDA which will be 75yrs old soon is a good thing. If by law they require to note FAL numbers of its members so be it. You may find one day that being a member of a club like this is part of showing you are responsible.

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It led to to massive increase/uptake in Australia of shooting/hunting clubs in the wake of Port Arthur. Not quite what the powers that be were expecting....

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Originally Posted by tiroahunta

It led to to massive increase/uptake in Australia of shooting/hunting clubs in the wake of Port Arthur. Not quite what the powers that be were expecting....

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And that's a silver lining for here. It is driving license holder into (hopefully) larger and stronger and better organised representative shooting clubs and organisations. That strengthens representation and solidarity.

For what its worth i let my NZDA membership lapse after the stance they took over the terrorist attack. I have since rejoined this year . I think it is better to be part of than not. Its also easier to change something from the inside rather than the outside.

I see the Taupo range has gone from $5 to $20 for non members. Maybe a push to get to get more people to join. I can see more people going out to DoC land or forestry to site their rifles in though.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

I see the Taupo range has gone from $5 to $20 for non members. Maybe a push to get to get more people to join. I can see more people going out to DoC land or forestry to site their rifles in though.

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Compared with the cost of maintaining let alone upgrading the range $20 bucks is dirt cheap. Consider joining. Using Forestry or DoC land without permission is illegal and consequences of getting caught may be severe. Your rifle, your liscence and your choice.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Compared with the cost of maintaining let alone upgrading the range $20 bucks is dirt cheap. Consider joining. Using Forestry or DoC land without permission is illegal and consequences of getting caught may be severe. Your rifle, your liscence and your choice.
GPM.

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Very hard to police DoC land I’m afraid.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Very hard to police DoC land I’m afraid.

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...even so, @grandpamac is right: your rifle, your license, your choice.

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Originally Posted by Nickoli

...even so, @grandpamac is right: your rifle, your license, your choice.

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If I want to use the range I have no problem with paying $20, it’s a fantastic Rifle range. But I’m sure there will be a lot that won’t.

Out of curiosity I had a look through my hunting permit and couldn’t find anywhere that says you can’t sight your rifle in, as long as you’re not at a road end or near a hut or endangering people or property. No different to shooting at a deer really.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Very hard to police DoC land I’m afraid.

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Greetings,
This may be true but remember that the Christchurch murderer belonged to a small group of people that used to shoot on an unofficial range in the pines. The law requiring clubs and ranges to be approved was to counter this and was passed in Parliament by most parties including National. It is not DoC but the Police that will be conducting any enforcement. I don't know how vigilant they will be and don't intend to find out. The non shooting public is not stupid and know the law so the chances of being reported are higher than you would expect.
There is a thing called a Risk Matrix which develops a risk rating based on the likelihood of an event occurring and the consequences of the event. The likelihood of being caught may be low but the consequences could be high, so a moderate risk. I belong to one of the NZDA branches in Hawkes Bay which does not have a range. There is another local 100 metre range that I used which is probably now closed. There is also a dedicated 300, 600 and 1000 yard full bore range that I shoot on and I have a casual sighting in range at home which I use sparingly. Outside that I drive to the Jack Dillon Range (Taupo NZDA) where I am a member. The round trip is a little over 300 km. I realise you may be being hypothetical but just in case please go along to Taupo NZDA and join up. They will welcome you and introduce you to 4 position shooting, metallic silhouette and running boar. The last of those is on this Sunday 10:00AM.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Very hard to police DoC land I’m afraid.

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True, but why knowingly do something illegal ? These days , more than ever, it behoves we hunters to do the proper, responsible, and legal thing. We don't need society and the media continually demonising us because we flout the law. We should be striving to demonstrate a higher standard among the hunting / shooting community. You may very well decide to do your own thing on DOC or other lands, and may very well never be apprehended but I'm afraid you'll receive no sympathy from me if caught and dealt with harshly. I know under these new regs there will be both more cost and inconvenience involved but we can't change the events that caused this. What we have is a new reality and we have to live with it.
My 2c worth anyway.

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

True, but why knowingly do something illegal ? These days , more than ever, it behoves we hunters to do the proper, responsible, and legal thing. We don't need society and the media continually demonising us because we flout the law. We should be striving to demonstrate a higher standard among the hunting / shooting community. You may very well decide to do your own thing on DOC or other lands, and may very well never be apprehended but I'm afraid you'll receive no sympathy from me if caught and dealt with harshly. I know under these new regs there will be both more cost and inconvenience involved but we can't change the events that caused this. What we have is a new reality and we have to live with it.
My 2c worth anyway.

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Mate I’m not planning on sighting my rifle in on DoC land but can you point out where it’s actually illegal? No mention of it on my hunting permit which I thought would be the obvious place.

Some of the attitudes on here are frankly frustrating for those volunteers, like myself, who put an extraordinary amount of effort into the NZDA branches.
I find it almost amusing that the opportunity to make submissions on these topics were available to you all, but some would rather sit here virtue signaling on the internet after the fact.
The NZDA advocated on many aspects of the reform, is a financial supporter of COLFO, and kept its membership up to date.

The reality is that the time for debate and discussion is over, the laws have changed and the NZDA and its branches will, of course, now comply with the law.

I sit here torn in engaging in this topic after the hours I and our branch have spent on the topic because the information you require is all again available to you on the Te Tari Pūreke website.
Should you feel so strongly, go find that information and give the NZDA a break.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Very hard to police DoC land I’m afraid.

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All it takes is a game camera that you don't see. Couple of years ago a couple of infrastructure workers decided harvesting deer on DOC land during work hours using the company branded vehicle was a good idea. After they found their photos on their management's desk of them with vehicle and branded work cloths, and their jobs gone, they might have rethought matters. Nor did they have DOC licenses.

Game cameras are cheap and you never know where they are deployed or by who. Bit like dashcams in motor vehicles. But hey, if folk want to play the odds...

As our branch Sec advised, the new range rules require a shooting club to keep a copy of the FAL number for each member.
I have given my number to my branch sec, as he has advised he won't upload to a national database.
If the NZDA don't have the security that the new police run registration has, why should I have it on an NZDA database.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Mate I’m not planning on sighting my rifle in on DoC land but can you point out where it’s actually illegal? No mention of it on my hunting permit which I thought would be the obvious place.

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Read the first paragraph. You are authorised to enter the land with a rifle for the purpose of hunting or killing wild animals. Nothing more. No target practice, no sighting in just hunting and with luck killing wild animals. The permit tells you what you can do and anything else is a no no.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
This may be true but remember that the Christchurch murderer belonged to a small group of people that used to shoot on an unofficial range in the pines. The law requiring clubs and ranges to be approved was to counter this and was passed in Parliament by most parties including National. It is not DoC but the Police that will be conducting any enforcement. I don't know how vigilant they will be and don't intend to find out. The non shooting public is not stupid and know the law so the chances of being reported are higher than you would expect.
There is a thing called a Risk Matrix which develops a risk rating based on the likelihood of an event occurring and the consequences of the event. The likelihood of being caught may be low but the consequences could be high, so a moderate risk. I belong to one of the NZDA branches in Hawkes Bay which does not have a range. There is another local 100 metre range that I used which is probably now closed. There is also a dedicated 300, 600 and 1000 yard full bore range that I shoot on and I have a casual sighting in range at home which I use sparingly. Outside that I drive to the Jack Dillon Range (Taupo NZDA) where I am a member. The round trip is a little over 300 km. I realise you may be being hypothetical but just in case please go along to Taupo NZDA and join up. They will welcome you and introduce you to 4 position shooting, metallic silhouette and running boar. The last of those is on this Sunday 10:00AM.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Running boar! If it wasn't nearly a1000 k round trip I'd be in, must look at adding one at our local range. Should have considered it while doing the certification but it was hard enough as it is. Still there is goodfellows and the crafty trout to tempt an overnight stay

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Originally Posted by Fatberg

Next time I'm there I will go for a look. I don't dispute their good intentions.
I do support the NZDA by paying whatever the membership is each year, going to the club night each month and talking to newbies to try make them feel welcome, going on party hunts etc.
On a personal level I really like the guys who run my local club. Highlighting some of the issues I see doesn't mean I don't support the NZDA.

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Yes you should arrange a time to call in and talk to Gwyn. I'm sure he will make you most welcome. They also have an amazing collection of books and historical papers.

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Originally Posted by bigbear

so what happens if you want to become a member and don't have a licence?

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You won’t be able to use the range:D

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Running boar! If it wasn't nearly a1000 k round trip I'd be in, must look at adding one at our local range. Should have considered it while doing the certification but it was hard enough as it is. Still there is goodfellows and the crafty trout to tempt an overnight stay

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And I think they still shoot it centre fire as well. Hasting Deerstalkers had a Running Boar range from the mid 1970's until it broke down around 1990 and no one seemed interested or capable of fixing it. It was great fun. A mate and I used to swap the running boar pot between us using Ruger 10-22 Sporter rifles. We also ran shoots for school kids shooting targets from a rest with the same rifles. It was easier and safer to run as the kids didn't have to struggle with reloading, just line up and bang. Repeat as required. Each kid had one of us standing behind them to sort out any problems. A brick of .22 ammo just melted before your eyes.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Cameron92

Some of the attitudes on here are frankly frustrating for those volunteers, like myself, who put an extraordinary amount of effort into the NZDA branches.
I find it almost amusing that the opportunity to make submissions on these topics were available to you all, but some would rather sit here virtue signaling on the internet after the fact.
The NZDA advocated on many aspects of the reform, is a financial supporter of COLFO, and kept its membership up to date.

The reality is that the time for debate and discussion is over, the laws have changed and the NZDA and its branches will, of course, now comply with the law.

I sit here torn in engaging in this topic after the hours I and our branch have spent on the topic because the information you require is all again available to you on the Te Tari Pūreke website.
Should you feel so strongly, go find that information and give the NZDA a break.

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Now I sit here torn...what, pray tell is a Te Tari Pureke?

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Originally Posted by outlander

Now I sit here torn...what, pray tell is a Te Tari Pureke?

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Found ithttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...47ea321c5e.jpg

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Read the first paragraph. You are authorised to enter the land with a rifle for the purpose of hunting or killing wild animals. Nothing more. No target practice, no sighting in just hunting and with luck killing wild animals. The permit tells you what you can do and anything else is a no no.
GPM.

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Just checked the Range Manual which has a section for casual sighting in when not on a range. The first requirement is the permission from the Land owner which you do not get with a Hunting Permit. There is a fair bit to work through as well. It is not just tack up a target and bang away.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by outlander

Now I sit here torn...what, pray tell is a Te Tari Pureke?

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You’re trying to take that on another tangent. It’s not about the name of it, that wasn’t the point.

Been an NZDA member for a while and agree that bthe new CEO/ head hoohaa is a tonic that was needed

I had stopped paying full membership fees several years back as head office was wasteful and disorganised for a long time then came out to us at branch level with their hand out to fund a museum and all sorts

If the new broom keeps sweeping clean I may renew but will see


And yes i have given submissions to all of these stupid law changes that we are all working under now
and yes I have volunteered extensively at my local deertalkers range and donated time and materials to it

Be careful where you swing that virtue signalling label, boy

Just cos you've done some hard work it doesn't mean you are the only one

Only a Fudd would label someone "boy".

dont believe it would be illegal - your permit gives you the right to carry a firearm on DOC land

Well well, I hope nobody in Hawkes Bay is jumping up and down, or even surprised by NZDA requiring their FL license details.
Because to use the well developed 100yd rifle range and neighboring 400 yd rifle range here in HB, administered and maintained by volunteers, you must hand over your FL details before you receive the key. Been that way for a while now, and no users complain about having to do that, so nothing new there and everyone's happy.
Amazingly though, that still doesn't deter a certain element from using the bench rests as backstops for their Targets unfortunately. So a damage report sheet for every user to fill in is being considered. And that's a can of worms for all involved.

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

dont believe it would be illegal - your permit gives you the right to carry a firearm on DOC land

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So let me reiterate - it is not very useful to give advice if you are mistaking or representing your opinion as a fact

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Originally Posted by Tentman

So let me reiterate - it is not very useful to give advice if you are mistaking or representing you opinion as a fact

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Is it illegal?

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Well let's arrange a demo. We'll need a volunteer to be the shooter and invite old mate plod and someone from DOC to observe. Just for good measure maybe some trampers or the like can go for a walk in the same area. Our Volly will have to pay lawyers fees when up before the judge while everyone determines if it's legal or not (which based on the terms of the permits as already mentioned is unlikely) - if he/she loses I supose they could sell their firearms to recuperate some of their costs, they won't need them cause they'll no longer be a fit and proper person (to have a FAL)