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Thread: Obtaining more information from your groups - overlaying groups

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gimp Obtaining more information... 25-01-2025, 12:13 PM
McNotty I’m working on it, don’t get... 25-01-2025, 11:50 PM
gimp That looks like great... 26-01-2025, 08:54 AM
McNotty Mauser M18 22” barrel - 223... 26-01-2025, 09:43 AM
earplay Interesting thread, and... 26-01-2025, 11:37 AM
McNotty Got out to range in the... 02-02-2025, 09:40 PM
McNotty Found the time to put in the... 04-02-2025, 06:28 PM
gimp What do you think from here?... 04-02-2025, 06:36 PM
McNotty I just did this load for some... 04-02-2025, 06:58 PM
blip I guess i do a similar thing... 26-01-2025, 09:01 AM
gimp Most of what is perceived as... 26-01-2025, 11:53 AM
No.3 This is good, has the... 28-01-2025, 04:36 PM
Mroach Very slick idea, painfull... 16-03-2025, 10:41 AM
earplay gimp filebin link doesn't... 31-01-2025, 04:43 PM
gimp Re-uploaded - the link only... 03-02-2025, 12:36 PM
earplay gimp still no go at this end... 03-02-2025, 07:21 PM
gimp Are you clicking the link in... 03-02-2025, 07:25 PM
earplay Yes, tried both links, same... 03-02-2025, 07:34 PM
gimp If you pm me your email... 03-02-2025, 09:01 PM
earplay Ok - so I've had a play with... 04-02-2025, 05:24 PM
gimp That's excellent precision... 04-02-2025, 05:51 PM
earplay It's a standard Howa 1500 in... 04-02-2025, 06:37 PM
gimp Doing the maths, you have... 04-02-2025, 06:16 PM
earplay Out of interest how did you... 04-02-2025, 06:38 PM
gimp Mean radius is 2.14cm at... 04-02-2025, 06:44 PM
earplay Interesting - so a 95%CI for... 04-02-2025, 07:27 PM
gimp .91 to convert angular... 04-02-2025, 06:45 PM
gimp We really should just start... 04-02-2025, 06:48 PM
gimp The cool thing about using... 04-02-2025, 07:17 PM
gimp The sample size required to... 04-02-2025, 07:32 PM
gimp If you do decide to try... 04-02-2025, 07:51 PM
earplay That's helpful to know. Makes... 04-02-2025, 07:56 PM
gimp I've been threatening to make... 04-02-2025, 07:37 PM
gimp Precisely 04-02-2025, 08:06 PM
gimp I had a quick play adding... 05-02-2025, 08:36 AM
flock Still at the beginning with... 05-02-2025, 10:40 PM
gimp I'll be really interested to... 06-02-2025, 08:30 AM
Benj Here is my effort at a ten... 07-02-2025, 09:28 PM
gimp In the interests of science,... 09-02-2025, 06:24 PM
gimp Maybe all the error is me,... 09-02-2025, 06:33 PM
gimp So what is the problem I... 09-02-2025, 06:39 PM
ANTSMAN yes, you're right. I remember... 12-02-2025, 07:19 AM
whanahuia I guess a couple of other... 10-02-2025, 10:10 AM
gimp The former is more or less... 10-02-2025, 10:33 AM
whanahuia You are probably right. It's... 10-02-2025, 11:58 AM
earplay I appreciate your thorough... 10-02-2025, 12:43 PM
gimp My observation would be that... 10-02-2025, 02:30 PM
gimp This for example is a group... 10-02-2025, 04:06 PM
gimp I guess what you might find... 10-02-2025, 10:52 AM
McNotty One thing all this highlights... 10-02-2025, 12:56 PM
gimp Yes, although I don't think... 10-02-2025, 01:59 PM
Benj Here is another go with my... 10-02-2025, 02:16 PM
whanahuia Yes. Im just cautious in that... 10-02-2025, 08:32 PM
gimp Give it a crack with your... 10-02-2025, 09:00 PM
whanahuia Yeah I intend too. Ive just... 11-02-2025, 06:24 AM
Tentman Hey I'm the original IT dunce... 10-02-2025, 09:19 PM
gimp Ah. If the Hornady App... 11-02-2025, 06:54 AM
gimp Tentman if you take good... 11-02-2025, 07:20 AM
Tentman After a bit of pissing about... 12-02-2025, 07:57 AM
whanahuia Ive actually just put a scope... 11-02-2025, 05:32 PM
gimp I'm interested in all the... 11-02-2025, 06:15 PM
whanahuia Ok here's this morning... 12-02-2025, 09:22 AM
gimp To me it's just the random... 12-02-2025, 10:23 AM
gimp ANTSMAN Tentman Here's the... 12-02-2025, 09:46 AM
gimp The group circled in red is... 12-02-2025, 10:32 AM
whanahuia I'll do it again in a couple... 12-02-2025, 12:04 PM
gimp Your 10shot group from the ... 12-02-2025, 12:22 PM
whanahuia You got it pretty close. 9 is... 12-02-2025, 01:37 PM
gimp Yes the white X is the true... 12-02-2025, 01:43 PM
whanahuia Yeah. I actually shot that... 12-02-2025, 02:48 PM
gimp Just bear in mind Part 6 of... 12-02-2025, 02:55 PM
whanahuia Yep.Thanks. But frustrating... 12-02-2025, 03:20 PM
ANTSMAN Here's my go. Tikka Strata... 12-02-2025, 08:06 PM
Tentman 268745 A test to see if... 12-02-2025, 08:26 PM
gimp 4 words Foster - cut rifled... 12-02-2025, 08:34 PM
McNotty Outing to the range (proper... 13-02-2025, 05:21 PM
gimp What do you think? 13-02-2025, 07:34 PM
McNotty Unsure what I think. Still... 13-02-2025, 07:52 PM
gimp It's pretty consistent in... 13-02-2025, 08:20 PM
McNotty Also shot the 65gr GK 223... 13-02-2025, 09:25 PM
Stocky Great thread cheers gimp I... 13-02-2025, 10:02 PM
Dreamer My effort with a new put... 17-02-2025, 02:46 PM
SPEARONZ Did you break position... 17-02-2025, 07:38 PM
Dreamer Only to reload the magazine,... 17-02-2025, 07:48 PM
Tentman Well my weekend report. ... 17-02-2025, 03:35 PM
gimp A system producing a mean... 22-02-2025, 06:41 AM
Tentman Hey thanks gimp getting to... 22-02-2025, 04:30 PM
gimp How did you go? Be... 23-02-2025, 08:04 PM
Tentman I'm still battling the... 23-02-2025, 09:18 PM
Tentman So the Tiika put 3 rounds... 23-02-2025, 09:16 PM
gimp Camera off square, dodgy... 24-02-2025, 09:10 AM
Tentman My new (to me) 223 is going... 28-02-2025, 10:21 PM
gimp What did you get? 02-03-2025, 01:49 PM
Tentman Cut rifled match grade haha.... 02-03-2025, 02:34 PM
gimp Looks pretty good. Be... 03-03-2025, 11:03 AM
Tahr Their blueing is pretty... 16-03-2025, 10:47 AM
flock Bought the Hornady app mostly... 14-03-2025, 06:02 PM
gimp No app - just the phone... 20-03-2025, 11:09 AM
flock Awesome, thanks for that 24-03-2025, 11:59 AM
flock Some Quickly done load... 24-03-2025, 09:01 PM
gimp Very good, now you can add... 26-03-2025, 09:19 AM
Trout Just over layed 4 shots out... 27-03-2025, 06:58 AM
  1. #11
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    Most of what is perceived as "shooter" effects or groups opening up from "barrel heat" is demonstrably just groups filling out with more data. I have fired dozens of groups of various sizes from various rifles over the past year and when you get larger samples the perceived effects just go away - you just get a real picture.


    Groups will (almost) ALWAYS get larger with more shots. You are just building a more true picture of the actual distribution of shots that the rifle system will produce.


    Here's my 2x 10rd groups from yesterday with the factory 73gr ELD overlaid using this tool - they just fill out into a nice rounder picture of what the dispersion of the system actually is.
    Name:  223 73 eld.png
Views: 426
Size:  36.6 KB


    Mean radius 0.068MRAD - I should expect that 95% of shots I'd fire from this system would fall inside a circle of diameter 0.28 MRAD or thereabouts. So I can expect to reliably hit 0.3MRAD targets IF I can get perfect zero, perfect adjustments for range/wind, don't have excessive vertical spread at the relevant range due to velocity variation, etc - and I don't make any egregious shooter errors in the field.

    Group extreme spread, of enough shots, give you a rough relative index of whether a rifle system is more or less precise than another. Mean radius gives you that, and a predictive tool for what size targets you can expect to hit.
    Dreamer, Eat Meater and earplay like this.

 

 

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