Positive interaction with NZ police (MSSA build)

With all the doom and gloom about the NZ police, I though I'd take a minute to tell you about the interaction I have had with several different sections over the last month or so.

I decided to build a dedicated M4 carbine clone to use in service rifle comps, as I've recently changed the stock on my "irons" rifle to A2 with a rifle buffer, and that makes the carbine length gas system even more unpleasant to shoot !

So first off, import permit. Emailed a digital import permit off to my local AO. Steve is a good dude, and always quick to reply and get things moving. Permit arrived from HQ about a week later, and a shopping spree at Brownells commenced :thumbsup:

I emailed the customs section at Auckland International to see if I could send up the permits ahead of time. Matt was very friendly, and was happy for me to do this, and kept me in the loop when the parcels arrived.

Back to my local AO with the POL67X for a permit-to-procure, or pinky as we call them. That literally took a day to get to my postbox, and I did the build last night.

Last thing to do was to get the permit-to-procure signed off and the rifle endorsed. Rocked up at the local cop shop today around 18H00, told the lady behind reception what I wanted to do, and had a very pleasant interaction with her. She let me into a room where she could check the rifle without any fuss.

Bit of a run-around, but in all honesty, it really does not take that long, and I get to compete in a discipline I really enjoy...

Nice to hear for a change. Matt at Customs NZ is a good guy to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Matt at Customs NZ is a good guy to deal with.

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He certainly is :)

I had outstanding service at the local level, until we got a new AO and Wellington decided they wanted to stick their beaks in everything. Something like switching an A cat rifle to E cat was done instantly via email, now it has been over two weeks and I am still waiting.

I've had a very pleasant and easy security inspection and an import permit received promptly in the last 10 days. No issues.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

I had outstanding service at the local level, until we got a new AO and Wellington decided they wanted to stick their beaks in everything. Something like switching an A cat rifle to E cat was done instantly via email, now it has been over two weeks and I am still waiting.

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Getting the PTP or the actual endorsement ?

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Originally Posted by ebf

Getting the PTP or the actual endorsement ?

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Getting the actual endorsement for the rifle. P2P's are still ok. To be fair it is Wellington driving the new process.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Getting the actual endorsement for the rifle. P2P's are still ok. To be fair it is Wellington driving the new process.

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As long as the local guys sign your copy of the PTP it's pretty much admin on their side. Once I have the signed pinky I can go play :thumbsup:

I have always found the front-line staff good to deal with. Dot your i's and cross your t's and things go smoothly. PNHQ is a horse of a different colour.

great to hear positive feedback. almost sounds like it used to be 40 years ago.....man we took a giant leap backwards when we stopped the "good visits" to the local station.

Our arms officer in Tokoroa is a good lady to deal with.

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Originally Posted by erniec

Our arms officer in Tokoroa is a good lady to deal with.

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Yes absolutely

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

great to hear positive feedback. almost sounds like it used to be 40 years ago.....man we took a giant leap backwards when we stopped the "good visits" to the local station.

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We have a similar situation where I work. We used to have lots of customer contact the were for positive reasons. They were actually happy to see us, now we have a far more advanced automated system that does all the easy stuff. Only the more difficult stuff needs a person and this does tend to be a more negative interaction. (think a retail situation where the checkout is automated but the complaints desk is not- the only time you see a customer they are complaining. Except in our case it is reversed - sort of)

We no longer have anywhere near the positive interactions. With police moving towards automation, a lot of the positive friendly interactions we used to have (S43A forms, enquiries, address changes etc) will be gone and the only time you will need to see an AO will be when something has gone wrong. It also means the only time they will see clients will be when something has gone wrong.

Its the down side of automating and making things "efficient". You lose the positive interactions along with it. Which takes the joy from the job.

ebf, I hope you are giving proper recognition to the efforts of Richard Lincoln for your ability to build your M4 clone! His Court efforts (Lincoln v NZ Police 2009, Lincoln v Commissioner of Police 2012, NZ Police v Richard Lincoln 2015) have all resulted in positive decisions that made it possible. Had he not taken those stands (along with other previous cases brought by NSA supporters) then the Police would have, long ago, prevented such builds, and possibly even ownership of such items. In all those cases there was no mention of representing anybody, merely proving to the Court than the Police were acting beyond their lawful powers. Food for thought perhaps?

@gundoc, nice try :D if I built an A-cat your comment might be relevant...

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Originally Posted by ebf

@gundoc, nice try :D if I built an A-cat your comment might be relevant...

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Do a wee bit of research and you will find that it is all applicable to MSSA's.

Central police AO drags the chain... still waiting 21days after submitting my import permit.

nothing except good thing to say about AO staff at the christchurch office, their civilian interviewer for renewals was a different story

There is no positive interaction with the police in this day and age. The public’s most common dealing with police is a demand for money through the mail, after being photographed on the highway or being stopped on said highway by the modern day highwayman, just because they want to.
Should you have the misfortune to be burgled, your complaint will be treated as unimportant and should the thief be apprehended do not expect the return of your goods or any restitution. Having the correct insurance cover will be more meaningful to you than expecting capture and return of your property by police.
A prevalent attitude among the current blue gang is that the public are all criminals, but most haven’t been caught yet.
As a firearms owner you are seen as a possible threat in any dealings with police be it a traffic stop or a home visit.
The provisions of the arms act are used by police to employ their time persecuting the most law abiding section of society, licenced firearms owners.
When one must deal with them, it is generally asking for permission to buy, travel, or import something you want in regards to firearms. Here they also abuse their statutory power by making shit up. Over the years police have demanded the surrender of private property in return for permits, photographed firearms and registered firearms while conducting nationwide security examinations for which they have no legislative excuse.
NZ police have a long established, and well earned reputation for creating evidence and perjury and I would expect that most people would treat them as they would, any other gang member, Avoid if at all possible.
Until NZ police are completely purged, and a new force dedicated to the original principles of Robert Peel replaces the trash we now have, I don’t expect to see any change in the current situation.

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Sir Robert Peel's
Principles of Law Enforcement
1829
1. The basic mission for which police exist is to prevent crime and disorder as an
alternative to the repression of crime and disorder by military force and severity of
legal punishment.
2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of
police existence, actions, behavior and the ability of the police to secure and maintain public respect.
3. The police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance
of the law to be able to secure and maintain public respect.
4. The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes,
proportionately, to the necessity for the use of physical force and compulsion in
achieving police objectives.
5. The police seek and preserve public favour, not by catering to public opinion, but by
constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to the law, in complete
independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance
of individual laws; by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all
members of society without regard to their race or social standing, by ready exercise
of courtesy and friendly good humour; and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in
protecting and preserving life.
6. The police should use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of
the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning
is found to be insufficient to achieve police objectives; and police should use only the
minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for
achieving a police objective.
7. The police at all times should maintain a relationship with the public that gives
reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the
police; the police are the only members of the public who are paid to give full-time
attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the intent of the
community welfare.
8. The police should always direct their actions toward their functions and never appear
to usurp the powers of the judiciary by avenging individuals or the state, or
authoritatively judging guilt or punishing the guilty.
9. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible
evidence of police action in dealing with them.

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Yes Matt at customs is a good guy as is the AO. It's PHQ and their political activism that lets it all down.

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

nothing except good thing to say about AO staff at the christchurch office, their civilian interviewer for renewals was a different story

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Agreed JB and the whole team at Chch are excellent to deal with. My only issue is they could have located the arms office a little more discreetly. Everytime you go there, you are in full view of typically hardly Christchurch's finest citizens all waiting for other police issues..... :(

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Unfortunately that is the lot of the police both the good and the bad.
Most people forget that.
I get pissed off when I get speeding tickets but I wouldn't ever want some of the stuff they have to deal with.

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Originally Posted by erniec

Unfortunately that is the lot of the police both the good and the bad.
Most people forget that.
I get pissed off when I get speeding tickets but I wouldn't ever want some of the stuff they have to deal with.

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I was about to join the police force in the late 90s when another career option opened up. I went down that rabbit hole instead and while I still wonder "what if", I also know I enjoy what I do now even after 19 years at it, and with the way things have gone I am happy I made the call that I did. Some of the things that mates in the force have had to deal with are things I never want to see. I would have done them and I would have done so without complaining. I have a lot of sympathy for those who have stepped up to the mark; But I am glad I have never had to deal with bodies on the road side, telling people that their loved ones are never coming home; or being put in a situation where I have to point or use a firearm against another person. I know it is sometimes necessary but still not a decision I ever want to have to make.

There is also the darker attitude towards them now. Back before when I was looking at it and before, there were Police and Panda's (Traffic cops) . That made a huge difference. Police were the ones who turned up when you needed them, they were the ones to help on what was a victims worse day, and they were the ones who tried to catch the culprits. The only people who disliked them seemed to be the culprits, and they were generally seen as respected by the public. However the Pandas were disliked jumped up little stormtroopers. Or they had the reputation for being such. They were the ones who pulled you over and gave you tickets that you didn't want. And generally they were disliked a lot. Now the Police do this and I think this is where a lot of the disrespect arises. Our most frequent interactions with them is now when we dont want to see them rather than when we need their help. And the little driving anachists who think the roads belong to them and the rules dont apply, get a lot of this contact and hence generate a lot of the FTP attitude. They feel picked on for some reason. I remember a famous quote, apparently from Einstein, that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results". (Which could explain these little dickheads somewhat)

When I see a lot of the hate that goes towards the cops, I always wonder what generated it? What started this person to feel this way? Most seems to come for younger people who have yet to learn there are repercussions for their stupidity....

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Originally Posted by timattalon

I
There is also the darker attitude towards them now. Back before when I was looking at it and before, there were Police and Panda's (Traffic cops) . That made a huge difference. Police were the ones who turned up when you needed them, they were the ones to help on what was a victims worse day, and they were the ones who tried to catch the culprits. The only people who disliked them seemed to be the culprits, and they were generally seen as respected by the public. However the Pandas were disliked jumped up little stormtroopers. Or they had the reputation for being such. They were the ones who pulled you over and gave you tickets that you didn't want. And generally they were disliked a lot. Now the Police do this and I think this is where a lot of the disrespect arises. Our most frequent interactions with them is now when we dont want to see them rather than when we need their help. And the little driving anachists who think the roads belong to them and the rules dont apply, get a lot of this contact and hence generate a lot of the FTP attitude. They feel picked on for some reason. I remember a famous quote, apparently from Einstein, that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results". (Which could explain these little dickheads somewhat)

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heard the same thing from some older cops years ago. A lot weren't happy when the two arms were merged.

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

heard the same thing from some older cops years ago. A lot weren't happy when the two arms were merged.

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yup, the cops were a bunch of good guys, traffic cops were regarded as want-to-be's.

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

yup, the cops were a bunch of good guys, traffic cops were regarded as want-to-be's.

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An ex-traffic cop that had been merged into regular force ran over my mates blind aunty and her guide dog on a pedestrian crossing. He was blatantly pissed as a parrot, leaving the league club. The cops that attended refused to breath test the old coot. Was told a few months later that this was because he was a couple of months away from retirement and would have lost his pension. She had bones poking out of her leg, the works. Went from triathlete (yes, totally blind triathlete) to being stuck at home for the best chunk of a year, after a week or two in hospital.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

I was about to join the police force in the late 90s when another career option opened up. I went down that rabbit hole instead and while I still wonder "what if", I also know I enjoy what I do now even after 19 years at it, and with the way things have gone I am happy I made the call that I did. Some of the things that mates in the force have had to deal with are things I never want to see. I would have done them and I would have done so without complaining. I have a lot of sympathy for those who have stepped up to the mark; But I am glad I have never had to deal with bodies on the road side, telling people that their loved ones are never coming home; or being put in a situation where I have to point or use a firearm against another person. I know it is sometimes necessary but still not a decision I ever want to have to make.

There is also the darker attitude towards them now. Back before when I was looking at it and before, there were Police and Panda's (Traffic cops) . That made a huge difference. Police were the ones who turned up when you needed them, they were the ones to help on what was a victims worse day, and they were the ones who tried to catch the culprits. The only people who disliked them seemed to be the culprits, and they were generally seen as respected by the public. However the Pandas were disliked jumped up little stormtroopers. Or they had the reputation for being such. They were the ones who pulled you over and gave you tickets that you didn't want. And generally they were disliked a lot. Now the Police do this and I think this is where a lot of the disrespect arises. Our most frequent interactions with them is now when we dont want to see them rather than when we need their help. And the little driving anachists who think the roads belong to them and the rules dont apply, get a lot of this contact and hence generate a lot of the FTP attitude. They feel picked on for some reason. I remember a famous quote, apparently from Einstein, that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results". (Which could explain these little dickheads somewhat)

When I see a lot of the hate that goes towards the cops, I always wonder what generated it? What started this person to feel this way? Most seems to come for younger people who have yet to learn there are repercussions for their stupidity....

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Not sure about that, got pulled over for traffic violation, told the old guy in the uniform, "it's a fair cop". It's annoying, but no reason to hate the police really. On the other hand getting burgled while overseas on holidays and getting cross questioned about it by the cop (who did attend, in fairness), that soured things a bit. Don't hate cops for that reason either, just learnt that home security is my problem, not theirs. The police playing politics and enforcing their own views, goodbye to Peel's impartiality, puts me on a political collision course however, again not necessarily with the rank and file cop (the poor bastards are just glorified bouncers now, trying to contain the mess of drinking in our cities over the weekends especially. Where is the care for police by 'our' politicians controlling alcohol outlets and closing times?)

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Not sure about that, got pulled over for traffic violation, told the old guy in the uniform, "it's a fair cop". It's annoying, but no reason to hate the police really. On the other hand getting burgled while overseas on holidays and getting cross questioned about it by the cop (who did attend, in fairness), that soured things a bit. Don't hate cops for that reason either, just learnt that home security is my problem, not theirs. The police playing politics and enforcing their own views, goodbye to Peel's impartiality, puts me on a political collision course however, again not necessarily with the rank and file cop (the poor bastards are just glorified bouncers now, trying to contain the mess of drinking in our cities over the weekends especially. Where is the care for police by 'our' politicians controlling alcohol outlets and closing times?)

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@Cordite , please dont get me wrong, the Traffic guys were catching people when they were breaking the speed limit or other violations etc. And fair cop, most people that saw them had done something wrong. But the fact was, when people had interactions with the traffic officers they were generally copping a telling off and as such this made the contact a rather negative one. People generally did not want to see a Traffic officer so they became unwanted attention and disliked when the did have a cause to speak to one.

And I almost feel like I am one f the few that does still respect the cops. For the most part, the uniforms on the job are pretty good to deal with. You are correct in the " police playing politics and enforcing their own views, goodbye to Peel's impartiality, puts me on a political collision course however, again not necessarily with the rank and file cop " but this tends to be those further up the ladder (such as Cahill and co)

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Originally Posted by timattalon

@Cordite , please dont get me wrong, the Traffic guys were catching people when they were breaking the speed limit or other violations etc. And fair cop, most people that saw them had done something wrong. But the fact was, when people had interactions with the traffic officers they were generally copping a telling off and as such this made the contact a rather negative one. People generally did not want to see a Traffic officer so they became unwanted attention and disliked when the did have a cause to speak to one.

And I almost feel like I am one f the few that does still respect the cops. For the most part, the uniforms on the job are pretty good to deal with. You are correct in the " police playing politics and enforcing their own views, goodbye to Peel's impartiality, puts me on a political collision course however, again not necessarily with the rank and file cop " but this tends to be those further up the ladder (such as Cahill and co)

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Yes, I think we are looking at it the same way.

Great news, Steve is awsome to deal with, unfortunately he will be retiring in the next six months or so, only hoping his replacement will be as good to deal with as him.

In my most recent dealings where a mad cow tried to take a cop and i out in her car in greymouth,i found the boys in blue pretty good to deal with .certainly the SGT was 101%all the way.seeing the way courts and legal beagles shagged em round though -not impressed.
Apparently though the judiciairy are less than impressed with police files required in court in grey seem to spend that day ensconced in tasman HQ in bloody Nelson!
Judge Jane Farish has vent her spleen more than once about this and she is ,im told not to be trifled with.
In terms of AOs,my vettor is an ex MOT-bit of hard case ,but we get through the process.
last time i got stopped on the way to the coast by CHIPs(NZpolice version) "what in the fucking middle of nowhere on the way to the coast:wtfsmilie: ,he ripped me a "$150.00" new arsehole.though my pious catholic altar boy demeanour and fluttering eyebrows did save him reaching for the book and wasting govt biro ink!
watched him freezing his nuts off at arthurs-"serves ya right ya raybans wont keep ya warm!"

Ive generally got time for the frontline teams ,though respect tendered is generally returned,but some of the tertiary educated shineyarsed biro pushers remind me why contraception is so essential!

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Originally Posted by Beavis

I had outstanding service at the local level, until we got a new AO and Wellington decided they wanted to stick their beaks in everything. Something like switching an A cat rifle to E cat was done instantly via email, now it has been over two weeks and I am still waiting.

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See under (1) in the Givealittle spiel, is that relevant to here? https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/fire...to-be-admitted

@Cordite, that was 2013. Things have changed

If you have an E endorsement, you need to complete POL67X

Firearms forms and guides | New Zealand Police

The cop coming around with the food bank before Christmas pulled over, chatted with my young boys, turned on the siren and gave then candy canes. They found the whole thing pretty positive, which is much needed in an area where a number of their mates parents would simply tell them to "run".

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Originally Posted by ebf

With all the doom and gloom about the NZ police, I though I'd take a minute to tell you about the interaction I have had with several different sections over the last month or so.

I decided to build a dedicated M4 carbine clone to use in service rifle comps, as I've recently changed the stock on my "irons" rifle to A2 with a rifle buffer, and that makes the carbine length gas system even more unpleasant to shoot !

So first off, import permit. Emailed a digital import permit off to my local AO. Steve is a good dude, and always quick to reply and get things moving. Permit arrived from HQ about a week later, and a shopping spree at Brownells commenced :thumbsup:

I emailed the customs section at Auckland International to see if I could send up the permits ahead of time. Matt was very friendly, and was happy for me to do this, and kept me in the loop when the parcels arrived.

Back to my local AO with the POL67X for a permit-to-procure, or pinky as we call them. That literally took a day to get to my postbox, and I did the build last night.

Last thing to do was to get the permit-to-procure signed off and the rifle endorsed. Rocked up at the local cop shop today around 18H00, told the lady behind reception what I wanted to do, and had a very pleasant interaction with her. She let me into a room where she could check the rifle without any fuss.

Bit of a run-around, but in all honesty, it really does not take that long, and I get to compete in a discipline I really enjoy...

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But why should you have to?
You have jumped through a lot of hoops just to register a semi-automatic rifle. Albeit, one with a bit of black bling to assuage your fetish.
How am I, as a citizen, living in a safer community just because you have added your firearm to a police list?
Are you a more responsible and caring human being after having registered your firearm than you were before adding it to the police confiscation list?
The Arms act needs to be repealed so that we can move past all this nonsense, which is wasting our time and money and prevents police from doing the job we pay them for. All criminal activity is amply covered by the Crimes Act 1961. Abolish the Arms Act and move the bureaucrats out to working on the street or sack them if they can't work in the community.