Shooting at Medium Range

Greetings All,
There have been a few threads recently dealing with long range shooting. Although I have not shot at anything much over 200m I found the posts interesting and learned a thing or two as well. This got me thinking about how people deal with medium range shots? These would be those beyond the point blank range of your rifle, scope and cartridge set up out to about 400m.
For those not familiar with point blank range and its other names it is the range at which the projectile neither rises above nor falls below the line of sight by a maximum of 50mm. For most hunting rifles this very roughly 250m when sighted in at 180 to 200m.
My primary and alas little used hunting rifle is a Tikka T3 in 6.5x55mm with a Leupold 6 power long range duplex scope. The load is the 129 grain Hornady SST at 2,850 fps and is zeroed dead on at 200m. Using the trajectory from the Hornady on line tool corrected ranges for the hash marks have been calculated and also enough deer body bracketing data to tell me when the shot is likely to far for a point blank shot. If it is it is time to reach for the rangefinder. This last is important as there is a tendency to aim over the deer when it looks a long way and over the deer is often where the shot goes.
So the question is "What other methods are people using for those medium range shots"?
Regards Grandpamac.

Stay with your normal long range technique

Assess target

Range
Measure wind
Dial for shot

Use every shot as an opportunity to make your Long Range technique as normal and second nature as possible.


Attachment 168773

My rifle is zeroed at 100yds. I hunt with 2.5 MOA dialed into my scope so anything inside 250yds I range and then shoot. Anything beyond 250 I range, consult drop chart and dial.

You'll get 300 easy just aim at top of shoulder but beyond 300 you need to dial. Am using eld 130 @ 2830 and zeroed 3.8" high at 100m. Gives 3" high @200 m . 4.3"low@300 . 10.7"low @ 350. 14 7" low @ 375m and 19.2" low @ 400m.

I never have daylight showing under the cross hairs of my scope.

But then 200 yards is a long shot for me.

For deer size targets I use a 100 mm poi sight at 100 meters. Depending on cartridge / caliber from .35 Whelen bush rifle to .270 win open country fallow gun this gets me to 200 and 275meters dead on. At 400 m at high shoulder shot with the .270 is all that’s needed. Always range first where time allows.

In open country I normally pick a dial set up first.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Stay with your normal long range technique

Assess target

Range
Measure wind
Dial for shot

Use every shot as an opportunity to make your Long Range technique as normal and second nature as possible.


Attachment 168773

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Yep absolutely this, plenty of people miss a shot at just 400 yards or even much less due to not acessing and approaching the shot right.

90 % of the time for a 400 yard hunting shot you have time to determin and allow for drop properly.

Before I had a range finder or dialy scope I sighted in bang on at 200m (217y)
With the 308 and factory 150gr soft points that put me a maximum of 2.5 inch high at 125y
Bang on at 30y and 217y
2 inches low at 250y
6 inches low at 300y
13 inches low at 350

So I knew I could aim straight at the neck if the shot was on with no allowance for trajectory out to 250y

If it looked farther than that I would hold high on shoulder and know I would either spine or engine room shoot 300-350.

It worked very well however my eyeometer ranging while pretty good out to 200-250 was pretty poor at 300-350....needless to say I got a range finder after a couple of cockups.

As long as you KNOW your trajectory and KNOW your range Kentucky windage is perfectly adequate with shoulder shots on deer sized game in a decent chambering until you are trying to guess/holdover more than 12 inches of drop.

You are just not going to guess 20+inches holdover at range accurately.

Then you need to go to a drop type reticle or a dial scope IMO

Zero bang on at 100yds,then go to 300yds,get my drop at 300yds with the 100yds zero.Then i know my drop chart is good to 400 -500yds.For hunting my scope set at 2'' high is good for point and shoot to 240yds.Most of my deer are inside 200yds any how.

I just use a 270.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I just use a 270.

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I just stalk closer :-)

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

I just stalk closer :-)

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So does he:D

Attachment 168806

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Attachment 168806

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Its a good approxamation that chart.

its older than us both bud...and still VERY RELEVANT........back before rangefinders were common...hell you DIDNT see them at all...and as for dialing up...yeah nah...twiddlin n fiddlin was done to sight in and not touched AT ALL otherwise..... if you read "the sharpshooter" arguably the bible of accurate hunting 30 years ago...one of the bits that stuck out for me was line...wait till deer is heading uphill away from you,giving big dorsal strip to aim at and from top of head down to hips ..... a shot ON LINE had big drop and still effective....
interesting Matt used the 22HP Savage for a time and had high praise for it.....when used with caution.....bit like,well actually VERY LIKE the thread on 223 on deer.
the more time goes by the more I come to realise everything has been tried before in some form and the old rules still hold true.

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Originally Posted by stug

My rifle is zeroed at 100yds. I hunt with 2.5 MOA dialed into my scope so anything inside 250yds I range and then shoot. Anything beyond 250 I range, consult drop chart and dial.

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I apply this same method as @stug . Basically replicating the old school 200y zero incase I need to make quick shot within point blank range. Failing that it’s just the same old method, range, asses wind, dial, shoot.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I just use a 270.

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I usually just walk back a hundred or so metres and then let go with the trusty 25/303.

Running a .308 Bushpig, I keep it simple, zero for 220yds, =neg 4" at 270yd, hold a bit higher for 300yd. Inside my given zero plus a bit, it's just point and shoot, and you know when it's far enough to need ranging and if you need to range, you've got time to set the shot up.

Can hit what I want to at 400+yds, but that's a long way for me! If I do have to take a longer shot with the .308 I have preset and tested my zero using the duplex post, plus 4"at 305yd - zero at 345yd - neg4" at 375yd, hold a bit higher for 400yd , they all land in a 4" box at 400, but,

Can't beat getting closer!

Greetings All,
Thank you for all your replies, they have been most helpful. To summarise some ranged and dialed for everything, partly to develop a sound technique for long range shooting. Most used a hunting zero that gave them a point blank range somewhere past 200 metres and ranged and dialed beyond that. Some ranged for the closer shots to check that it actually was inside their point blank range. Only 257weatherby mentioned using an auxiliary aiming point (top of the bottom duplex post) as a secondary zero. 257weatherby also limited himself to 400 yards and that only when absolutely necessary.
So what does this mean for an old duffer with an aim of being technically capable of taking some medium range shots, say out to 300 or at the very most 400 metres. First I will stick with my 200m zero. This means that the various marks on my reticle are as follows: Cross wire 200m. First dot 280m. Second dot 365m. Top of lower duplex post 450m. I also mentioned bracketing as a rough estimate of range. Using a depth of a deer's body of 400mm if the body fills the distance between the crosswire and the top of the duplex post than the range is less than 200m and the cross wire can be used. Obviously deer do not all have a body depth of exactly 400mm but this should tell me when I need to reach for the rangefinder. This data has been calculated from the Leupold data and the Hodgdon trajectory ballistic calculator. Over the winter actual results will be checked on the range. Thank you all for your input.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

its older than us both bud...and still VERY RELEVANT........back before rangefinders were common...hell you DIDNT see them at all...and as for dialing up...yeah nah...twiddlin n fiddlin was done to sight in and not touched AT ALL otherwise..... if you read "the sharpshooter" arguably the bible of accurate hunting 30 years ago...one of the bits that stuck out for me was line...wait till deer is heading uphill away from you,giving big dorsal strip to aim at and from top of head down to hips ..... a shot ON LINE had big drop and still effective....
interesting Matt used the 22HP Savage for a time and had high praise for it.....when used with caution.....bit like,well actually VERY LIKE the thread on 223 on deer.
the more time goes by the more I come to realise everything has been tried before in some form and the old rules still hold true.

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Thanks Micky,
I was looking for that chart on the rule of three plus have had my copy of "The Sharp Shooter" out as well. Although the kit some of us use changes the basic underlying techniques do not. Often they are just repackaged and hyped as the new thing. I would bet that some on the Forum don't realise that fixed power scopes are still available.
Regards Grandpamac.

I zero my 18” 708 at 200 yards there for point and shoot out to 250, after that i use the bdc reticle i have on scope, this gets me out to 600 on steel and 400 on animals. I used the stirlok app to get my holdovers right then verified at range then go hunting. Working well so far.

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Originally Posted by H.M

I zero my 18” 708 at 200 yards there for point and shoot out to 250, after that i use the bdc reticle i have on scope, this gets me out to 600 on steel and 400 on animals. I used the stirlok app to get my holdovers right then verified at range then go hunting. Working well so far.

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if you look at 7x57mm on above chart....not a lot has changed in 50 something years LOL.

I had a google for quality 6-8x fixed scope a while ago and couldn't come up with much ?

I happen to know where a couple are located....all of about 20 feet away from where Im sitting in fact....leupold and kahles LOL.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I had a google for quality 6-8x fixed scope a while ago and couldn't come up with much ?

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Leupold FX3 and Schmidt and Bender Pm2/ Klassik for point and shoot/ also have dialable options

Kalhles, Meotpa and IIRC Doctor for point and shoot

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I had a google for quality 6-8x fixed scope a while ago and couldn't come up with much ?

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Greetings Vietnamcam,
Yes they are not as common as they used to be. The 6 power FX2 LR Duplex on my T3 is still available. I looked at both the FX2 and FX3 but chose the former as it was lighter and the scoped rifle weighs less than 3kg. I had a 3-9 on my .308 rifle at one time and found it got left at 6 power most of the time. More of my rifles have fixed power scopes than not including 6, 8 and 10 power. The three 10 power scopes have Mil dot reticles which I quite like and avoid the problems from second focal plane reticles in variable scopes. Currently there is a much wider range of first focal plane scopes available in my price range and I might have to break open the piggy bank for one for my 7mm SAUM if I can improve my mobility by spring.
Regards Grandpamac.

Having a rangefinder is handy but I have also tested load drop on big sheet of cardboard at 100,200 and 300 metres with my normal hunting load. .270 130g powershok. Sighted 2 1/2" high at 100, tiny bit high at 200 and 7 inches low at 300. Anything past 300 just get closer or hold a bit above shoulder.

if the plurry rangefinder will give you a reading ay bud......otherwise your mate gets impatient and just shoots the plurry thing LMFAO.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

if the plurry rangefinder will give you a reading ay bud......otherwise your mate gets impatient and just shoots the plurry thing LMFAO.

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Owch!:D

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

if the plurry rangefinder will give you a reading ay bud......otherwise your mate gets impatient and just shoots the plurry thing LMFAO.

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Hence my desire for a simple and affordable system, available instantly, to see when a range finder is actually needed. Plenty of tails of woe have been recounted where the rifleman fishes out his rangefinder only to find that the range is 200m or less just as the deer disappears into the scrub.
Regards Grandpamac.

Sounds like you want the same simple system like the old basic golf ranging. Where the assumption is the flag pole is a fixed height and calibrate against gradations through a monocular.

So....if you know the depth of a hind or stag and know what magnification your scope is at then even with a duplex reticle you should be able to estimate the distance give or take. Would just take some practise. And some more practise. Until its second nature.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Ned

Sounds like you want the same simple system like the old basic golf ranging. Where the assumption is the flag pole is a fixed height and calibrate against gradations through a monocular.

So....if you know the depth of a hind or stag and know what magnification your scope is at then even with a duplex reticle you should be able to estimate the distance give or take. Would just take some practise. And some more practise. Until its second nature.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

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Greetings Ned,
Exactly right. My scope is fixed power so I am going to use the multi dot reticle instead and have calculated how far away 400mm is between the various dots. Bear in mind this is just to let me know when I should use the rangefinder or when I don't need it. I am sure that I remember a system such as you suggest being touted on some scopes a decade or three back. I can use my fixed power mil dot scopes the same way. I used to do stadia level surveys where you set up your level and have your assistant place the staff on points of interest. You then read top wire, middle wire and bottom wire in the level plus the bearing. The distance from the top wire to the bottom wire times 100 was the distance from the level which together with the bearing allowed you to plot the survey without faffing around with a tape. Now that is all done with electronics.
Regards Grandpamac.

tasco 30/30 reticle of 80s vintage.......simple duplex FROM MEMORY "if your buck fills across from thick outer bar to thick outer bar,he is 100 yards...if he fills from outer bar to Xhair he is at 200 yards,if he only takes up half way from XHair to outer bar he is .............
where it falls over is an animal of larger or smaller than normal body size...but its still pretty good rough n ready system. how many rugby fields never worked for me.

Mildots were intended for ranging. Know the size of something but not the distance measure it in mil and half mils and you can calculate the distance. Conversely if you know the distance you can calculate the size.
Once you are familiar with it you can estimate distance much quicker and with sufficent accuracy out to around 4 to 500 metres to connect without the time penalty of going for a rangefinder then back to the rifle.
It's not as accurate obviously but is good enough in many situations and has the bonus of giving you your holdovers without the need for knob twiddling.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

tasco 30/30 reticle of 80s vintage.......simple duplex FROM MEMORY "if your buck fills across from thick outer bar to thick outer bar,he is 100 yards...if he fills from outer bar to Xhair he is at 200 yards,if he only takes up half way from XHair to outer bar he is .............
where it falls over is an animal of larger or smaller than normal body size...but its still pretty good rough n ready system. how many rugby fields never worked for me.

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Attachment 169067
Greetings Micky,
From my archive. My Tasco scope was a 2.5 power purchased around 1980. Made in Japan and still here although not currently fitted to a rifle. I guess the ranges would be 125 and 62.5 yards (half of 5 power) not a fat lot of use really. I had it zeroed at 200 yards on my .308 and shot our NZDA comp out to 300 yards with it until it cot shuffled aside by higher power optics. Still would be a good choice for the thick stuff.
Regards Grandpamac.

well my memory isnt too shabby after all......not bad considering I havent seen one of them adverts for 30 something years LOL.
guys who shoot on farm land can use a fence batten........ they pretty much all same height..... much more reliable than animal size.

I know that my drop with both my hunting rifles is "hundreds minus 1.5" which gets me within a click or so out to 400m, I can choose to either dial or hold with my FFP mil reticles. Range everything unless it is obviously very close, I have not lost a chance at an animal as long as I can remember due to any delay from ranging or dialling, but I generally try not to disturb the animals I'm hunting and scare them off.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

well my memory isnt too shabby after all......not bad considering I havent seen one of them adverts for 30 something years LOL.
guys who shoot on farm land can use a fence batten........ they pretty much all same height..... much more reliable than animal size.

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Fence battens are 1.050m to 1.070m tall. By the time you lose a bit in the grass at the bottom say 1.0m or 10 mrad at 100 metres. Might have been made for ranging and we never knew.
Regards Grandpamac.