Shooting place in Ohakune area?

I am a part time hunter long time shooter who grew up on a farm in Hawkes Bay and now lives in Auckland.

Lately a large number of my Auckland friends have asked me to take them shooting, teach them gun safety, help them get their license, etc. Sign of the times I suppose.

I am currently organising an Ohakune based four day adventure weekend for a bunch of mutual mates. Focus mostly on Skiing, Quad Biking, other outdoor activities. Myself and two other licensed mates wanted to run a shooting circuit to see if we could get a few of the others hooked on shooting/hunting, and had arranged some land to set it up on for Saturday August the 20th 2022. Only I have just been told the owner of the land is no longer able for us to use it.

The original plan was to run three activities. 1) .22 short range target shooting. 2) Shotgun Clay Bird. 3) Lever action plinking with .38 special.

Two groups of 7-8, everyone over 40 and sensible. We also have three license holders to oversee, all experienced at shooting.

As such I am looking for

1) Someone who would let us shoot on a bit of land in exchange for a nice bottle of scotch.
2) A suitable public location (obviously I will have to get everyone a permit and change to centrefire only).

Welcome to the forum, suggest you get yourself known around here a bit before asking favors of that multitude. Under todays climate most are very cautious about allowing firearms on their property.

Perhaps contact Mayor of Raetehi. They like to boost their local economy and encourage visitors.

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Originally Posted by tetawa

Welcome to the forum, suggest you get yourself known around here a bit before asking favors of that multitude. Under todays climate most are very cautious about allowing firearms on their property.

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Hi mate, I certainly appreciate the thought, if I was a land owner being asked I would want to know some history too. Though I would probably find out by getting into it with the person over the phone. I guess, I am looking for someone who's desire to help trumps those concerns at least for an initial chat. If that's not you, then no problems at all I totally understand! As I mentioned, wouldn't even be asking if existing plans hadn't fallen through (and we had more than 3 weeks).

To the wider forum:
Has there been any concrete outcome in regards to whether this falls under operating a shooting range?. Please don’t derail the OP thread with opinions.

To the OP, this is possibly now the main hurdle to your proposal unless you can find a club down that way.

https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-se...ges?nondesktop

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Originally Posted by Woody

Perhaps contact Mayor of Raetehi. They like to boost their local economy and encourage visitors.

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Great idea, will make a call tomorrow. Thanks for the pointer.

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Originally Posted by longshot

To the wider forum:
Has there been any concrete outcome in regards to whether this falls under operating a shooting range?. Please don’t derail the OP thread with opinions.

To the OP, this is possibly now the main hurdle to your proposal unless you can find a club down that way.

https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-se...ges?nondesktop

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Thanks for the pointer, I am actually quite experienced with matters of legislation. I reviewed the relevant section of the act:
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/...LMS256768.html

It states that a "shooting club" is:
shooting club means a voluntary association of people who—
(a) act in accordance with a set of written rules; and
(b) participate in, or intend to participate in, shooting activities on a regular basis

We don't and won't have written rules, this is strictly a friends shooting together thing. We don't even plan to score the activities, all shooting will be done under the immediate supervision of a license holder. We also don't intend for this to be on a regular basis.

We purely want to help mates decide if they want to go forward with getting a license, and what kind of shooting they might want to do. At that point they can go join the appropriate club.

Thanks for the advice though, if the Waimarino Gun Club was still operating it would certainly solve all problems.

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Originally Posted by muzza

Theres places on Trade Me that off the weekend away type thing in back country huts. Try asking one of those folk if they can tailor make something for you

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Good idea, I guess in posting here I was sort of hoping someone like that in the Ohakune area might ping me. Definitely will look around. I am actually quite experienced in running that kind of thing myself, and have lot's of mates in HB that do it semi-professionally, just no-one that knows Ohakune.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOK

Thanks for the pointer, I am actually quite experienced with matters of legislation. I reviewed the relevant section of the act:
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/...LMS256768.html

It states that a "shooting club" is:
shooting club means a voluntary association of people who—
(a) act in accordance with a set of written rules; and
(b) participate in, or intend to participate in, shooting activities on a regular basis

We don't and won't have written rules, this is strictly a friends shooting together thing. We don't even plan to score the activities, all shooting will be done under the immediate supervision of a license holder. We also don't intend for this to be on a regular basis.

We purely want to help mates decide if they want to go forward with getting a license, and what kind of shooting they might want to do. At that point they can go join the appropriate club.

Thanks for the advice though, if the Waimarino Gun Club was still operating it would certainly solve all problems.

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I think it’s section 38L that applies to your idea. I may be wrong and am happy to be corrected as to whether it is the intention of the legislation to cover such activities or if that is how it will be applied. However I am certain that if it is applicable to your plan, not being a shooting club, would not be a defence against charges levelled according to part (2) of 38L

Not trying to be a party pooper or anything. Just prefer you don’t come unstuck.

"Shooting Range means a facility (whether indoor or outdoor), or a designated area of land, used by a shooting club or members of the public for the primary purpose of carrying out shooting activities;"

Definition of a range from the link, so does a 'one off' shooting sess in a paddock constitute a range ?

Wasn't this discussed previously, and the primary purpose of a paddock is farming? The shooting is both secondary to farming and temporary, which would exclude shooting being the primary use.
N.b. not a lawyer.

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Wasn't this discussed previously, and the primary purpose of a paddock is farming? The shooting is both secondary to farming and temporary, which would exclude shooting being the primary use.
N.b. not a lawyer.

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This is not the interpretation that Police have taken. Police have interpreted the Act to say that if members of the public are primarily using the land for shooting (at the time they are shooting) then they see it as a range. Police have explained their interpretation of "temporary" in Section 10 of the currently draft NZ Police Range Manual (https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...anual-2022.pdf). As regulations for Clubs and Ranges have not come into force Police are not issuing Range Certificates at this time.

@SigmaOK - suggest you try the Taihape NZDA branch.

Thanks for clearing that one up @Gillie.

The wording is a little opaque but I always thought that the moment someone sets up a target and shoots it, it would be very hard for them to argue that they weren’t operating a shooting range, in the event that they were accused or charged with doing so.

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Originally Posted by Gillie

This is not the interpretation that Police have taken. Police have interpreted the Act to say that if members of the public are primarily using the land for shooting (at the time they are shooting) then they see it as a range. Police have explained their interpretation of "temporary" in Section 10 of the currently draft NZ Police Range Manual (https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...anual-2022.pdf). As regulations for Clubs and Ranges have not come into force Police are not issuing Range Certificates at this time.

@SigmaOK - suggest you try the Taihape NZDA branch.

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Well then how about " if three of my mates come over to shoot in a paddock, but I have 12 cows in their grazing as well, we are outnumbered 3 to one that its being used principally for animal grazing" :thumbsup:

That is a hardcase interpretation - if you were shooting a cardboard box you are in breach of the requirement to have a (temporary) range permit, but if you shot a rabbit next to the box no issue.

Hmmmmmm..... what if you stapled a target to a rabbit? It would only be inanimate after the bullet hit, so as long as you used a live rabbit each time you'd be ok. Of course you would have to be careful that unnecessary suffering was avoided, wouldn't want to run foul of some other act. Possibly sticky tape rather than staples.

@longshot - I am not supporting the Police interpretation just pointing out that is their interpretation and intimating that likely it will take a judicial review / interpretation or a precedence to be set in court to dissuade the Police to the common interpretation of "primary" land use or if the land needs to be a "facility".
@XR500 - the cows are primarily using the land for grazing or farming, "the landowner and his three mates" are using the land for shooting at an inanimate object at the time they are shooting... temporary range... See section 10...
@Ross Nolan - I attempted to raise that exact point with Police some time ago and was basically told "Parliament have decided... Police and just implementing...". Was I shooting at a cow shit on the hill (inanimate object) or was I missing a shot on a rabbit... I don't believe Police will be focusing their range certification efforts on such a small scale hence Section 10 of the Police range manual versus the exact definition of range shooting included in the Act.

@Ross Nolan - I attempted to raise that exact point with Police some time ago and was basically told "Parliament have decided... Police and just implementing...". Was I shooting at a cow shit on the hill (inanimate object) or was I missing a shot on a rabbit... I don't believe Police will be focusing their range certification efforts on such a small scale hence Section 10 of the Police range manual versus the exact definition of range shooting included in the Act.[/QUOTE]


I have considered the matter a little more, and decided the sport of earthworm hunting needs to be revived.
Traditionally this was done by placing a piece of paper, cardboard or similar on the ground and shooting at the worms behind the paper, cardboard or similar. Over time it became customary to decorate the piece of paper, cardboard or similar with various geometric patterns and shapes as a way of propitiating the gods and spirits in charge of both shooting and earthworms.
A lot of people have lost this understanding, and believe that shooting the paper is the entirety of the process.
This is, of course, not so - and an important piece of our culture needs to be brought back to the forefront of this modern world.

Seriously, this is the sort of nonsense and/or unnecessary legislation that leads to the Police being placed in the position of being forced to use discretion - with the potential for uneven application of the law that results. Of course, all of the potential negative effects from target shooting - injury, breach of the peace, damage to property etc are already covered by other legislation. There is no need for this at all other than as a means of control over a sport that has no history of causing harm.

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Originally Posted by longshot

Thanks for clearing that one up @Gillie.

The wording is a little opaque but I always thought that the moment someone sets up a target and shoots it, it would be very hard for them to argue that they weren’t operating a shooting range, in the event that they were accused or charged with doing so.

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My interpretation is if no equipment, ie Targets, Shooting benches etc, are permanent, meaning removed completely at end of shooting/use then it is not a Range but a paddock or whatever it's primary use is. So a few mates set up a target in the back paddock, sight in rifles or whatever and then remove everything it is a paddock not a range.

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Originally Posted by BSA

My interpretation is if no equipment, ie Targets, Shooting benches etc, are permanent, meaning removed completely at end of shooting/use then it is not a Range but a paddock or whatever it's primary use is. So a few mates set up a target in the back paddock, sight in rifles or whatever and then remove everything...

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This is basically what the Police have defined as a temporary range not requiring certification in Section 10 of the NZ Police Range Manual (currently draft awaiting regulations).

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Originally Posted by Gillie

This is basically what the Police have defined as a temporary range not requiring certification in Section 10 of the NZ Police Range Manual (currently draft awaiting regulations).

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Doesn't it require a temporary permit though?

Edit to add

I read the wrong section. S10 talks about an ad hoc range, and seems to cover the informal (not a club) zeroing and similar shooting that happens in a paddock.