Thread: Shooting: The sport all of us enjoy - do your part in preserving the ability to do so

Originally Posted by Moutere

A submission rate of less than 0.174% of affected stake holders basically said we don't really care what happens, you MPs work it out.

A good number of those are carefully considered submissions from groups that represent large numbers of stake holders.

That's true Gadget.

Originally Posted by mikee

Interestinglyly there seems to be no "direct supervision" here and given that these are most likely the real deal.......................... perhaps rules don't apply to the army as well as the police as they are not mere mortals like us

Of course the rules don't apply to the army. Why would they?

Read the Arms Act.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

A good number of those are carefully considered submissions from groups that represent large numbers of stake holders.

Quite true.

I found this on the police association website: The New Zealand Police Association is a voluntary service organisation representing 8,600 constabulary police members across all ranks of the NZ Police. The Association also represents over 2,300 Police employees.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

And the next big problem with the only useful bit they came up with will be the definition of 'gang member' without impinging on the rights of others.

Everything else is a complete contradiction of the aims stated at the beginning.

Section 5 part 2 of the Prohibition of Gang Insignia in Government Premises Act 2013 No 56, Public Act – New Zealand Legislation states

"The Minister of Police may not make a recommendation under subsection (1) unless he or she is satisfied on reasonable grounds that the organisation, association, or group proposed to be identified has the following characteristics:

(a) a common name or common identifying signs, symbols, or representations; and

(b) its members, associates, or supporters individually or collectively promote, encourage, or engage in criminal activity."

And this is referenced for definition of GANG in the report. My problem is that it does not require proof of criminal activity only "reasonable grounds". And we know what "reasonable grounds" means when they decide to assess whether a stock is E or A cat....

Paula Bennett has this topic on her Facebook page and is calling for feedback.

Originally Posted by Krameranzac

Paula Bennett has this topic on her Facebook page and is calling for feedback.

Face plant.... N politicians using that and the us president twitter.... What's the world coming to.....

FB, a way to hide from the truth.
come on out and face a 1/4 of a million pissed off people paula

Originally Posted by systolic

There's more important things to consider for New Zealand, when voting in an election, than permits to procure for what are essentially toys.

Like health, education, housing, employment etc.

Well I think public ownership of firearms is a bit more than something about "what are essentially toys" and for a lot of us are pest control tools ect. It about the whole philosophy of citizens having rights/responsibilities and being treated as adults.

You are quite welcome to give up your "toys" (as you call them) to the police/government first (if you really have any). I am sure many others on the forum wont mind if you do.

Sorry I'm late to the party, but what if you and your wife and kids shoot....so now do you have to have on each licence all the firearms in your safe. This is a cluster Fcuk!!
So your picking up a gun for your mate to meet later for duck shooting, you have to leave and he brings it back to your home so you can lock it away.....how are they going to enforce this

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Sorry I'm late to the party, but what if you and your wife and kids shoot....so now do you have to have on each licence all the firearms in your safe. This is a cluster Fcuk!!
So your picking up a gun for your mate to meet later for duck shooting, you have to leave and he brings it back to your home so you can lock it away.....how are they going to enforce this

simple.. make you a criminal

Here is a copy of a letter I will send to my local MP and other politicians. Any advice on what to add, delete. Feel free to use it yourself. The more people that ask questions the better

I am writing to you to find out your parties position on the recent Law and Order committees findings on the illegal possession of firearms.
I am trying to work out which party to vote for later this year and your responses will help me with my decision.
I am a licensed firearms owner and passionate hunter and shooter. I have read through the committees recommendations and have some concerns.
I welcome recommendation 10 to make it difficult for gang members and associates to have a firearms licence, however most of the other recommendations seem to have a large effect on law abiding firearms owners and will have a minimal effect on criminals.
Countries such as Canada have realised that a registry of licensed firearms is costly and impractical. The Law and Order committee also noted this, so why did they propose recommendation 11 to record serial numbers of firearms when doing security checks, and how will this reduce the illegal use of firearms? What will happen with the records of serial numbers? How secure will the information be and who will have access to the information. I have concerns that the information will just end up being a shopping list for criminals. Recent experience with Novopay and the Ministry of Social development having privacy concerns with their kiosks and the recent privacy breach with the providers of social services do not fill me with confidence.
Recommendation 5, the requirement to have all firearms sales require a permit to procure will create unnecessary expense and not prevent illegal sales. Criminals will not go to the police to get a permit when they buy or sell firearms. I live in the country and I have had to visit the local Police station four times before I was able to complete a mail order sale and purchase form.
The Police are already understaffed and under-resourced, their burglary resolution rate is evidence of this, so how is putting an layer of administration of firearms sales and security checks going to help this?
I am also concerned with the Law and Orders committees recommendation 14 to get the Police to review the A category security standards. The Police have recently changed their “rules” around B,C and E category security requirements. This has caused major confusion around the country about what is a complaint safe and what isn't. Different Police vettors are applying their own rules and causing confusion and extra expense to legitimate firearms owners.
At the moment buyers of ammunition need to have a firearms licence to purchase ammunition, and recommendation 1 proposes you must have a firearms licence to possess ammunition, so how is recommendation 3 going to prevent the illegal use of ammunition? Ammunition has no serial number or major identifying features. It is just going to add an extra layer of bureaucracy and expense to legitimate business owners and licensed firearms owners.
I am also appalled that recommendations 14, 15 and 16 were put under the heading “Criminal offending with firearms”. How is the changing of security requirements or giving the police power to inspect A category security a criminal offence? I am a licensed firearms owner with A category security, how does the Police coming to inspect my security make me a criminal?

In summary; how will recommendation 11 prevent the illegal use of firearms? How will recommendation 5 prevent the illegal sale of firearms? How will recommendation 3 prevent the illegal use of ammunition? How will recommendation 14 not result in extra expense to legitimate firearms owners and end up being a de-facto way of preventing firearms ownership by setting unreasonable requirements for security?

I look forward to your responses to my questions and hope they will help me decide who to vote for in the upcoming election.

Yours sincerely,

Nice one Stug I suggest that all print this letter off sign it and send it!!!!

Need to add this question towards the end

If your party is able to form a government after the election which parts of the Law and Order committees Inquiry into issues relating to the illegal possession of firearms in New Zealand will you pass in to legislation and which parts will you reject?

Looks good to me @stug these are all important questions that need to be answered. I sent a similarly themed email to Paula Bennett thie evening. Nice to see that alot of us are on the same wavelength regarding this.