Paula Bennett has this topic on her Facebook page and is calling for feedback.
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Paula Bennett has this topic on her Facebook page and is calling for feedback.
Face plant.... N politicians using that and the us president twitter.... What's the world coming to.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Krameranzac
FB, a way to hide from the truth.
come on out and face a 1/4 of a million pissed off people paula
Well I think public ownership of firearms is a bit more than something about "what are essentially toys" and for a lot of us are pest control tools ect. It about the whole philosophy of citizens having rights/responsibilities and being treated as adults.Quote:
Originally Posted by systolic
You are quite welcome to give up your "toys" (as you call them) to the police/government first (if you really have any). I am sure many others on the forum wont mind if you do.
Sorry I'm late to the party, but what if you and your wife and kids shoot....so now do you have to have on each licence all the firearms in your safe. This is a cluster Fcuk!!
So your picking up a gun for your mate to meet later for duck shooting, you have to leave and he brings it back to your home so you can lock it away.....how are they going to enforce this
simple.. make you a criminalQuote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow
Here is a copy of a letter I will send to my local MP and other politicians. Any advice on what to add, delete. Feel free to use it yourself. The more people that ask questions the better
I am writing to you to find out your parties position on the recent Law and Order committees findings on the illegal possession of firearms.
I am trying to work out which party to vote for later this year and your responses will help me with my decision.
I am a licensed firearms owner and passionate hunter and shooter. I have read through the committees recommendations and have some concerns.
I welcome recommendation 10 to make it difficult for gang members and associates to have a firearms licence, however most of the other recommendations seem to have a large effect on law abiding firearms owners and will have a minimal effect on criminals.
Countries such as Canada have realised that a registry of licensed firearms is costly and impractical. The Law and Order committee also noted this, so why did they propose recommendation 11 to record serial numbers of firearms when doing security checks, and how will this reduce the illegal use of firearms? What will happen with the records of serial numbers? How secure will the information be and who will have access to the information. I have concerns that the information will just end up being a shopping list for criminals. Recent experience with Novopay and the Ministry of Social development having privacy concerns with their kiosks and the recent privacy breach with the providers of social services do not fill me with confidence.
Recommendation 5, the requirement to have all firearms sales require a permit to procure will create unnecessary expense and not prevent illegal sales. Criminals will not go to the police to get a permit when they buy or sell firearms. I live in the country and I have had to visit the local Police station four times before I was able to complete a mail order sale and purchase form.
The Police are already understaffed and under-resourced, their burglary resolution rate is evidence of this, so how is putting an layer of administration of firearms sales and security checks going to help this?
I am also concerned with the Law and Orders committees recommendation 14 to get the Police to review the A category security standards. The Police have recently changed their “rules” around B,C and E category security requirements. This has caused major confusion around the country about what is a complaint safe and what isn't. Different Police vettors are applying their own rules and causing confusion and extra expense to legitimate firearms owners.
At the moment buyers of ammunition need to have a firearms licence to purchase ammunition, and recommendation 1 proposes you must have a firearms licence to possess ammunition, so how is recommendation 3 going to prevent the illegal use of ammunition? Ammunition has no serial number or major identifying features. It is just going to add an extra layer of bureaucracy and expense to legitimate business owners and licensed firearms owners.
I am also appalled that recommendations 14, 15 and 16 were put under the heading “Criminal offending with firearms”. How is the changing of security requirements or giving the police power to inspect A category security a criminal offence? I am a licensed firearms owner with A category security, how does the Police coming to inspect my security make me a criminal?
In summary; how will recommendation 11 prevent the illegal use of firearms? How will recommendation 5 prevent the illegal sale of firearms? How will recommendation 3 prevent the illegal use of ammunition? How will recommendation 14 not result in extra expense to legitimate firearms owners and end up being a de-facto way of preventing firearms ownership by setting unreasonable requirements for security?
I look forward to your responses to my questions and hope they will help me decide who to vote for in the upcoming election.
Yours sincerely,
Nice one Stug I suggest that all print this letter off sign it and send it!!!!
Need to add this question towards the end
If your party is able to form a government after the election which parts of the Law and Order committees Inquiry into issues relating to the illegal possession of firearms in New Zealand will you pass in to legislation and which parts will you reject?
Looks good to me @stug these are all important questions that need to be answered. I sent a similarly themed email to Paula Bennett thie evening. Nice to see that alot of us are on the same wavelength regarding this.
Enforce through punnishment,both in the form of prosecution if you are caught and in the fee for applying for each and every gun you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow
Well...only if they think that you need it.
"You have a 243,why do you need a 6.5?"
This is the system most of Europe deals with,I cannot even take my Girlfreinds Rifle to the Gunsmith,even though we own identical models in the same caliber.Forget hunting with it too.
The application fee will in the begining rather small,to encourage people to comply.Then it will creep ever slowly up to discourage people from owning large numbers of firearms.Which at the mid point the Police will limit new applicants to "X" number of Long arms in "Y" calibers only.Untill most people can only own a handful of firearms,that require procurement fees of hundreds of Dollars,anual security inspections,compulsory club membership,mental health asessment etc.
Don't think that will happen?
In the 1980's in the UK you could own a Brengun and shoot it at the Range.Now they are licencing Air Rifles in Scotland.
https://www.facebook.com/paulabennet...91649702567417
Get her Told !
Yes Yes and "polite but firm" should be the tone keep the bad words out of you comments no matter how annoyed you may be, we need to portray a united front that we "regular everyday people" are not the "nutters" the police would have the general public believe we are !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie
My question would be more along the lines of "Why in hell would they even want to put laws in the way of firearm safety?" Some of these permit to procure issues could have some very serious implications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow
Teaching young / new shooters firearm safety and introducing them to firearms. How will supervision be addressed?
This was one of my first thoughts.... Only by 'qualified' instructors probably..Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
Not entirely as some carefully worded fact based submissions were made from a number of organisations I'm a member of spelt it out quite clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moutere
Numerous individual rants would not of changed a thing as they have followed whatever the Police "secret" submissions were.
This is neither Democratic to the process or followed the topic of enquiry and clearly shows attitude of senior Police to firearms licence holders and how they think.
Let's face it the findings are a complete and utter joke, it will now be played out in the elections. Vote NZ First seem to be only ones who clearly see what a crock this has been.
If they can get some reasonable representation at next election won't be a problem.
Through a minimum age of firearms useage.One can have a shotgun certificate in the UK at 14 years of age.At a fee of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
14 is also the minimum age of leagle accompanyment on a big game hunt in Norway,un armed that is.18 is the age of leagle gun ownership here,which as you guessed comes after a course and a safe and fees for each indevidual firearm.Oh and yes an annual fee to the government in case you might want to think about hunting.
Politicians rarely come up with original ideas,modification of exisitng legislation is the norm,makes them look modern and compliant.
The more I read it, the more it seems clear that they are trying to weasel in Australian gun laws.
Remember also that as a firearm owner and outdoors person, you also fall under the portfolio of the Minister of Sport and Recreation. Shooting is a sport and a recreation. Once you have finished writing to the Minister of Police about this report,you may like to write to the Minister of Sport and Recreation (Jonathan Coleman) and ask what he intends to do to safeguard your sport and recreation from the suggestions in the report.
Paula Bennetts Facebook Reply: Update [please like so this appears near the top]: thank you all for your constructive comments and feedback, which we're compiling and is running to 420 comments over 49 pages (32,800 words).
With that in mind, you can continue to leave feedback here, or alternatively email me directly at p.bennett@ministers.govt.nz with something like "illegal firearms" in the subject line.
To clarify the process from here, the Government will now consider Parliament's report and must provide a written response by 6 July.
Thanks again for taking the time to state your position - we hear you, we are listening, and we want to work with you to ensure we get good outcomes from this.
Thats almost a TUI ad....Yeeeah Right!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Krameranzac
This is what you are up against.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
I suggest you download your own copy of the National firearms agreement to see what you government ministers and police policy makers have bought into. Note it is the Australasian police ministers council. Not the Australian police ministers council.Quote:
COMMUNIQUÉ
Law, Crime and Community Safety Council, 27-28 April 2016
The first meeting of the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council for 2016 was held over 27 28 April 2016 in Queenstown, New Zealand. Ministers from New Zealand, the Commonwealth and each state and territory with portfolio responsibility for law and justice, police and emergency management were in attendance, as was a representative of the Australian Local Government Association. The meeting was chaired by the Hon Nikki Kaye MP, New Zealand Minister of Civil Defence the (Emergency Management Session), the Hon Judith Collins MP, New Zealand Minister (Law Enforcement session), the Hon Amy Adams MP, New Zealand Minister of Justice (Family Violence and Community Safety session) and the Commonwealth Minister for Justice and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Counter-Terrorism, the Hon Michael Keenan MP (Law Reform).
On 28 April 2016, the Hon Rene Hidding MP, Minister for Police and Emergency Management for Tasmania, asked Ministers to pause for a minute of silence to commemorate the passage of 20 years since the events of the Port Arthur tragedy – to reflect upon the ongoing suffering of those mourning the loss of the 35 people who died and the ongoing distress of many who survived appalling physical and mental trauma. Ministers noted that the tragedy shaped the Australian community’s notions of trauma, loss and suffering and how these events resulted in an extended community recovery program which became the benchmark for similar international events in following years. Ministers reflected on the decisive actions of all Australian jurisdictions in developing and achieving consensus on the historic National Firearms Agreement, which is the envy of many countries around the world and agreed to again restate all jurisdictions’ commitment to maintaining a national consensus on firearms as embodied in the National Firearms Agreement.
[Session 2: Law enforcement
National Firearms Agreement and other firearms measures
Ministers noted a number of measures to deal with illegal firearms and the ongoing work of senior officials to update the National Firearms Agreement.
Police and Government have complete contempt for your views. What you are seeing is merely the Govt's nodding dog technique. Your future is already decided.Quote:
AUSTRALASIAN POLICE MINISTERS’ COUNCIL
SPECIAL FIREARMS MEETING
CANBERRA
10 MAY 1996
RESOLUTIONS
2
1. Bans on Specific Types of Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that all jurisdictions ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or proposed to be banned from import other than in the
exceptional circumstances listed in paragraph 1.2 of the Commonwealth proposal (see
below).
para 1.2 The only need for the use of an automatic or semi-automatic longarm would be:
military;
police or other government purposes; and
occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
(b) that all jurisdictions ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
Council agreed to implement its resolution via the following action plan:
1. All jurisdictions to ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or to be banned from import other than in the following
exceptional circumstances:
military use;
police or other government purposes; and
occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
2. All jurisdictions to ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
3. The Commonwealth to ban the importation of all semi-automatic self-loading and pump
action longarms, and all parts, including magazines, for such firearms, included in Licence
Category D, and control the importation of those firearms included in Licence Category C.
2. Effective Nationwide Registration of All Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania immediately establish an integrated
licence and firearms registration system and that all other jurisdictions review their existing
registration systems to ensure that all systems are compatible.
(b) that these databases be linked through the National Exchange of Police Information (NEPI)
to ensure effective nationwide registration of all firearms.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...jQ?usp=sharing
Some numbers finally. It's almost comical how flimsy this fabricated "problem" is.
Attachment 66860
Attachment 66861
Pistols and MSSA make up 4.19% and 1.62% respectively of firearms seized with a 10 year period.
Attachment 66862
Rising crime?
Attachment 66863
OK.
Attachment 66864
Wait... what? LooL.
Please excuse the plagurism but I have used the bulk of your letter Stu and emailed my local MP, the PM, Bennet and leaders of all other parties just now.Quote:
Originally Posted by stug
Oh. References to the NZHS forum. Obviously watching here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
Ok so pistols are recorded via the permit to procure system. If police believe the majority of illegal pistols come from a formerly legal source, then in theory they could track that back to the origin by checking the pistol against a permit to procure. But they say they don't have much joy doing this. So why the fuck do they want to try and do it with the other 1 million + guns in the country?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
also point out that shooting pest animals saves valuable nz bush and farmlands and at no cost to the govtQuote:
Originally Posted by kiwijames
When they say "seized firearns" are they including from licenced owners suffering mental health issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk
Good callQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve123
I wish. The whole situation is severely fucked. Why the help should we follow any of Australia's laws. Useless pack of cunts we have representing us.Quote:
Originally Posted by 223nut
Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk
Was meaning a 'good call' as in do those figures include those that should have their firearms sized. Someone who has had a few hard years (think earthquakes, death in the family, bankruptcy etc) is very different to a gang member getting firearms siezed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve123
I'm starting to get really concerned about police powers and the onus on having to prove innocence.Quote:
Originally Posted by 223nut
Any transaction over $10k, pretty soon all your firearms except your 10/22 & semi auto shotty coz they've been banned. Any of your comunications etc. Didn't out grandad's fight against this very same shit. Didn't we denounce this shit when the commies were doing it?
What the fuck is going on?
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Had no idea any of this was going one until the other day.
#17 in regards to revoking licences for failure to comply with security standards is an interesting one, especially when combined with those standards being at the discretion of the police.
So when it all takes affect and those that have historically got away with a locked cupboard etc and their checks come up for review and having no idea of the new rules, as a lot of people busy living their lives will be, I wonder if they will be revoked on the spot or if they will be given a grace period in which to comply.
The untrusting side says revoked as its a wick way to disarm a good portion quickly with the responsibility being put on the firearms owner to know all laws at all times in order to comply.
Also that p2p crap is stupid. Would they rather my house have firearms in it with no one around when I go on holiday for a few weeks or that I leave them with another vetted individual?
Pretty hard to get an unbiased law when they have minute silence for port Arthur at the start! What's the minster for Tasmania doing here?
Underhanded muck tards!
That shooter got his guns from ones handed into the police in another part of there country!
They caused there own problem, now they advise us:O_O::yuush:
I think you will find that the Police prefer that we would not have firearms at all to leave at home. Infact they seem to believer we are fit and proper criminals. Or so it would seem from their secret submissionQuote:
Originally Posted by Nibblet
I'd love to see a televised interview/debate between Chris Cahill and someone from our side who would call him out on the bullshit stats the police provided the select committee, that don't even support the police narrative of increasing gun crime/violence.
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Welllll sort of, I'd like to see what joe plod thinks of this, some stats too. Is it just the police assoc? Particular areas? Old copper/new copper breakdown? Hate to tar all the police with this guy Cahill (have yet to decide what this particular animal is.. Liar? Yes, he certainly is, but why? What's the game here?)Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Unions never debate. They just shout.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
One of the troubles they have with the system here in the uk is if your firearms ticket expires while your waiting for your new one.....you are now in illegal possession of your own guns:wtfsmilie: that's because of there back log:O_O: even worse for gunsmiths and game keepers, sure they can issue you with a temporary permit, this makes you legal again.......BUT you can't use them our buy ammo:wtfsmilie:.
So they want to bring that in our something worse to NZ idiots!!!!!
Still at least there dealing with the real problem criminals with firearms :ORLY:.......idiots all a bunch of queer emus with there heads up there own ass.....
Feel for you guys:(
That's what you need to do make that the really question deal with the guys that are useing firearms in crime! If you make that the issue then you might come out ok, but at present I guess the police won't be back shooting at the gun club any time soon!
This is supposedly part of the Police submission
https://www.docdroid.net/euq1IzA/pol...f.html#page=11
