Shooting: The sport all of us enjoy - do your part in preserving the ability to do so

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Originally Posted by Savage1

To be honest I haven't read all of this thread.

In my opinion we have a problem with licenced people wilfully supplying weapons to non licenced undesirables, there is simply nothing that really discourages it. I personally know of a HH that bought 10+ AR15s over a few months along with a heap of other shotguns and had an empty safe when inspected and had no explanation for who had them.

Firearm possession amongst the criminal fraternities and incidents relating to it definitely have been on a steep rise in my area, it's becoming normal for them. I come across them often and have had them pointed at me and have mates that have been fired at.

I have only just read the summary, and the majority of it I agree with. I disagree with the permit to procure, no permission should be required, more of a electronic or simple form to notify where it's gone. Don't really agree with the 'make all semis Ecat' but can understand the thought process. Registering websites for sale of arms would never work.

Registration doesn't worry me, if they wanted m guns they would just come and get them.

I'm more of a 'what can I do to help' kind of guy rather than someone who sees them as the enemy. At a glance there was some very good points in that summary, re security and penalties etc. it certainly didn't look like the sky was falling to me but I haven't read the fine print. Having already having my E endorsement all this would effect me is by having some more paperwork out which is a bargain for some of the holes it will help to close. Except the P2P for all guns, that can piss off.

I'm doing this on my phone so I've probably left a heap out.

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Savage the real problem for me is the police not being open to us about what they want, it's a little clandestine doing things behind doors in secret with many , I suppose, that are not active hunters or enjoy any of the other legal activities of firearms. You mention the "enemy" I suggest a great mis trust because of this and topped off by a dick head who doesn't know his own law. I'm not upset at tighter security as long as the crims are dealt to, in announced invasion of my privacy is another matter. The polictical agenders don't help, appeasing the masses for votes, by picking on law abiding people, but that's another matter!

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

So why are the police issuing HH firearms licenses in the first place?
Is not that a fail on the fit and proper for a start belonging to a criminal organization?

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I'm pretty sure a gang member had his licence revoked for being a gang member but challenged it in court and police were over ruled by the judge as apparently being a gang member isn't a good enough reason, but police still get blamed.

Often police aren't aware at the time that they're a gang member or associate or they become one later

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Originally Posted by Savage1

I'm pretty sure a gang member had his licence revoked for being a gang member but challenged it in court and police were over ruled by the judge as apparently being a gang member isn't a good enough reason, but police still get blamed.

Often police aren't aware at the time that they're a gang member or associate or they become one later

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So why aren't the Police Association making any mention of this? Or the fact current sentences for firearm offending are a joke? Why should some meth dealing stand over fuckheads have a right not to be searched but your union rep wants my right's as a citizen removed so my house can be searched at any time?

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Originally Posted by Savage1

I'm pretty sure a gang member had his licence revoked for being a gang member but challenged it in court and police were over ruled by the judge as apparently being a gang member isn't a good enough reason, but police still get blamed.

Often police aren't aware at the time that they're a gang member or associate or they become one later

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OK fair enough on that point then.....it's the only point I think needs to change tho.
Police have shown over an over an inability to keep accurate records in the past what has changed that will enable them to have a fool proof,tamper proof,shopping list proof register of ownerships and sales?


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Thanks for replying to the thread @Savage1 - your input is appreciated.

The US and them divide is a result of police attitude and action. I have a problem with registration. I have a problem with police wanting me to forfeit my right to not be searched without a warrant. I have a problem with increasing restrictions on my sport for no benefit to society, particularly when the justification is based on blatant lies and bullshit. I have a problem with proposed restrictions when the piss poor enforcementioned of current legislation is not being addressed. And most importantly, I have a big fucking problem with police making shit up and calling it law


EDIT I realise that this is coming from bullshit castle and not the Frontline troops. They are going to inevitably wear some of the frustration

I noticed in one of the police submissions this fancy chart full or corporate-speak. The bubble that says "Be Safe, Feel Safe" reminds me of a gun control debate I had with wifey last year. The masses are being fed lies (alternative facts, if you like) by the police association that the stats don't support. The masses that aren't LFAOs (and some that are) will support further restrictions on the law abiding because it will make them "feel safe", even though there may be little to no change in actual, tangible, measureable safety. For most, a perceived increase in safety is enough to warrant infringing on the rights of others. Warrantless searches, no more nice things, etc.

Those that trade their freedom for security deserve neither.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Where do live grenades come from? Army losing shit as well?

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No idea, should probably stop the Army from having them though, on the off chance that it did come from them. xD

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Originally Posted by systolic

The police and their union want police to be able to do security checks at any time on people with A cat licences, just like they can do already with those who have B, C, and E licences.

Sounds like a good idea to me. One every 10 years when you know the guy is coming is hardly enough.

NZ First have increased security inspections as one of their policies too.

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They don't even have time to attend to burglaries so how are they going to have time to come annoy us?

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Originally Posted by outdoorlad

They don't even have time to attend to burglaries so how are they going to have time to come annoy us?

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Plenty of time for speeding tickets tho.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Plenty of time for speeding tickets tho.

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#passiveincome

Abit of an aside. With these ominous suggested law changes, the A cat hunting crowd is starting to get a taste of what endorsed license holders have dealt with for years. Most people don't realise the headaches of basic things - importing being a prime example. Some people have waited over a year to hear back on an import permit application for simple things like magazines. I don't seam to have half the problems others do, but, I have forgotten more than once that I'd even applied for permits, as they just dissappear into the ether, than half a year later I'll get a random phone call saying it's at the front desk.

Another problem as of late is security. Again, I seem to have dodged a bullet, but others have had E cat safes for years, and then been told they are no longer accepted by police.

Another example of policy chopping and changing - we were once allowed to own rifles with folding stocks, that were still ok even if they could be reduced below 762mm, as it was considered that a folding stock was an integral MSSA feature. The police have even used the illustration of a Norinco Type 56s, with a folding stock, as an example of an MSSA. That rifle folds down well below 762mm. The former head of licensing and vetting Joe Green even issued a statement outlining why these were legal. In the last couple of months PNHQ changed their mind, and suddenly many of us found ourselves in possession of illegal firearms which we had to modify or dismantle.

We give up our rights for a warranted inspection of our property already. While I find the idea of this disgusting, in practice, the majority of people never get audited, I guess due to a lack of resources. How they propose to improve on this with their current budget and staffing levels, with the added burden of thousands of other people, I do not know.

Our firearm transfers are already controlled by the permit to procure system. The way things are written currently regarding MSSA's, nobody can even touch your rifle other than yourself, legally. Whether they decide to amend this with any law change we will have to wait and see. It would be pretty stink if a father/son could get in the shit for touching each others firearms without a P2P.

Make no mistake, if these changes come to pass, down the road you will find yourself on the receiving end of policy changes.

That's right Beavis.

Thankfully my folders still are sufficiently long enough to meet police's ever changing requirements. It is however perhaps poignant that Joe Green set that precedent (762+ extended) and then somehow got "managed out" and then the policy changed. As I've said and will continue to say, my security has not received any inspection since the endorsed application inspection.

Could it be that the initial inspection is really sufficient? After all, a safe doesn't just simply rot away... Well, not unless exposed to the elements for hundreds of years.

I'd like to encourage the NZ based youtube channels and VLOGers that are hunting and firearm orientated to raise awareness of this issue and challenge their subscribers and viewers to correspond with their MP.

Leave no stone unturned.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Plenty of time for speeding tickets tho.

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Is that why they're getting rid of more than 100 traffic officers? They might get retasked to do security checks.

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Originally Posted by systolic

Is that why they're getting rid of more than 100 traffic officers? They might get retasked to do security checks.

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How about they get retasked to conduct burglary investigations? #toolittletoolate

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Who is losing all these firearms?

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Retards who leave their safes unlocked for a start:

Man 'duped' into posing as glazier before stealing guns worth almost $50,000 | Stuff.co.nz

The court heard Mosley and another man*burgled the property of a Dunedin Pistol Club member on October 25.
The pair*stole*28 firearms –*including five rifles, 23 pistols*and a large amount of ammunition worth $50,000*–*from an unlocked*safe and cabinet.



Edited to add: No wonder the cops want more power to check security. If a highly vetted 'fit and proper' pistol club member can't be arsed locking his safe after showing some 'ladies' his stuff, how can anyone have any confidence that a farmer or deerstalker will do any better?

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Originally Posted by systolic

Retards who leave their safes unlocked for a start:

Man 'duped' into posing as glazier before stealing guns worth almost $50,000 | Stuff.co.nz

The court heard Mosley and another man*burgled the property of a Dunedin Pistol Club member on October 25.
The pair*stole*28 firearms –*including five rifles, 23 pistols*and a large amount of ammunition worth $50,000*–*[B]from an unlocked*safe and cabinet.

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@systolic Pity those Police policy annual security checks didn't save us.

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Originally Posted by systolic

Edited to add: No wonder the cops want more power to check security. If a highly vetted 'fit and proper' pistol club member can't be arsed locking his safe after showing some 'ladies' his stuff, how can anyone have any confidence that a farmer or deerstalker will do any better?

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Now you're sounding more like a police plant. Please, do go on.

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Originally Posted by systolic

So anyone who points out shooters, like this wanker in Dunedin, are there own worst enemies much of the time is a police plant?

Go fuck yourself.

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If you can't be polite and mature with what you write, maybe its time for you to take some time out?

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Originally Posted by systolic

Retards who leave their safes unlocked for a start:

Man 'duped' into posing as glazier before stealing guns worth almost $50,000 | Stuff.co.nz

The court heard Mosley and another man*burgled the property of a Dunedin Pistol Club member on October 25.
The pair*stole*28 firearms –*including five rifles, 23 pistols*and a large amount of ammunition worth $50,000*–*from an unlocked*safe and cabinet.



Edited to add: No wonder the cops want more power to check security. If a highly vetted 'fit and proper' pistol club member can't be arsed locking his safe after showing some 'ladies' his stuff, how can anyone have any confidence that a farmer or deerstalker will do any better?

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Mate 50k of those type of firearms doesn't add up to many. We are talking thousands a year here, actual figures closer to ? 100? Nobody releases the facts, bulk shipments across the boarder? Look how many drugs get through and they are targeted with special forces?

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Originally Posted by systolic

Is that why they're getting rid of more than 100 traffic officers? They might get retasked to do security checks.

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If that's a fact I'll will rejoice!!!!' Hold on cars are killing far more people? Maybe the police just care about their own arses?

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Originally Posted by systolic

Retards who leave their safes unlocked for a start:

Man 'duped' into posing as glazier before stealing guns worth almost $50,000 | Stuff.co.nz

The court heard Mosley and another man*burgled the property of a Dunedin Pistol Club member on October 25.
The pair*stole*28 firearms –*including five rifles, 23 pistols*and a large amount of ammunition worth $50,000*–*from an unlocked*safe and cabinet.



Edited to add: No wonder the cops want more power to check security. If a highly vetted 'fit and proper' pistol club member can't be arsed locking his safe after showing some 'ladies' his stuff, how can anyone have any confidence that a farmer or deerstalker will do any better?

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Not much point trying to random inspect another 200k people then

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

If you can't be polite and mature with what you write, maybe its time for you to take some time out?

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Leave him alone, he has issues.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

If that's a fact I'll will rejoice!!!!' Hold on cars are killing far more people? Maybe the police just care about their own arses?

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Yes but speeding people are like criminals.................hard to find. Better to create new ones whose details we already have and know where to find..........................oh cynical me !!!

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Originally Posted by systolic

At the top right of your screen is the word 'settings'. Click on it and on the left hand side of the page is 'edit ignore list'. Then you can add the names of the people who upset you and you won't have to read what they say.
Then the bad man won't upset your delicate sensitivities anymore.

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Doesn't work like that buddy. This place is essentially self regulating by the members, if you're going to be a 'dick' be prepared to get called on it.
If you don't like that, then change your attitude or post elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Where do live grenades come from? Army losing shit as well?

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No I think the airforce supplied that one :O_O: along with pistol parts?

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Originally Posted by Moutere

Doesn't work like that buddy. This place is essentially self regulating by the members, if you're going to be a 'dick' be prepared to get called on it.
If you don't like that, then change your attitude or post elsewhere.

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I did what he suggested and now all his posts show as ignored and I don't have to read his dribble.

The dude in Dunedin was a bit shady from what I read. The reasons the criminals knew he had firearms was because the guy was paying ladies to pose with his firearms. The ladies saw where he was keeping them and told her friends.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/south-isla...ectid=11792504

COLFO's analysis of the report is out, and it's well written. http://www.colfo.org.nz/22-colfo/law...9s-report.html

Everyone should be using COLFO's report; @Koshogi's template; and some of the better comments on Paula Bennett's FB post to form their own responses to send to MPs. Much of the work has been done for you, so if you're not much of a wordsmith, copy and paste the bits you like into your own submission. Get cracking.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...53222321496908

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From: Independent Police Conduct Authority <case.resolution@ipca.govt.nz>
Date: 12/04/17 13:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: xxxxxxx
Subject: Your online complaint to the IPCA

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx
Receipt is acknowledged of your online complaint form received at the IPCA on 11 April 2017. The Authority is independent from the New Zealand Police and takes complaints against current police officers. You should therefore direct your complaint to the NZ Police Assn. Their website address is: New Zealand Police Association | Police Association
or phone : 0800 500 122

Case Resolution Team
Independent Police Conduct Authority

So you have to complain about Cahill to the Association he is the President of.
What a joke.

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

So you have to complain about Cahill to the Association he is the President of.
What a joke.

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Wonders never cease do they

If the Police Ass'n is any sort of organisation, it will at least have a Code of Conduct for its members, and possibly a Code of Ethics.

In either case, he'd probably be guilty of " ..conduct that brings members into disrepute", in this case, being ignorant of basic law when spouting forth on TV.

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Originally Posted by 6x47

If the Police Ass'n is any sort of organisation, it will at least have a Code of Conduct for its members, and possibly a Code of Ethics.

In either case, he'd probably be guilty of " ..conduct that brings members into disrepute", in this case, being ignorant of basic law when spouting forth on TV.

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Vision / Mission / Values | Police Association

value number 1: act with integrity and honesty. I cant find a comlaints field on the website so will have to use the contact us form.

IPCA is wrong as well, as per: https://www.policeassn.org.nz/about-...ure/key-people it clearly states: Chris is a Detective Inspector

Anyone from Napier? Here is your MP's response to the select committee report. Someone needs to educate him.

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...nash-responds/

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Originally Posted by Krameranzac

Anyone from Napier? Here is your MP's response to the select committee report. Someone needs to educate him.

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...nash-responds/

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So he's just regurgitated standard chardonnay socialist " we know better than you silly peasants" shit then.

RE: complaint against Police associate president Chris Cahill

On the 11 April broadcast of the TVNZ 'breakfast' show, Chris Cahill stated on air to the country that currently a firearms license is not required to be produced when purchasing ammunition. As per the arms act this statement is FALSE. Mr Cahill Mislead (he lied) to the country with this statement, and seeing as firearms legislation is currently under review after the select comittee report that was recently released, he lied to the government as well.

I note that The police association has previously mislead the country in stating to the media that twenty thousand guns are stolen from kiwi shooters each year. Which is interesting, as the NZ police do NOT keep records of this.

Why is the nz police association tolerating such a blatant lack of integrity from its president? This behaviour is unacceptable not only for licensed shooters of this country, but the public over all. During my service with the NZDF, this behaviour would likely result in a charge of bringing the service into disrepute.

Mr Cahills actions are at odds with your organizations own stated values, as per Vision / Mission / Values | Police Association which clearly states that your number one value is to act with integrity and honesty. Mr Cahills Deliberate misdirection is anything but acting with integrity and honesty.

I Have also laid a complaint with the IPCA, and will be forwarding a copy to the police minister.

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

No I think the airforce supplied that one :O_O: along with pistol parts?

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The Air Force have hand grenades? What the fuck for? Playing tennis?

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Originally Posted by Maca49

The Air Force have hand grenades? What the fuck for? Playing tennis?

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I was in one of the more field orientated units for 7 years, I only saw smoke grenades. Hand grenades were only used on pre deployment training, which was with army.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

The Air Force have hand grenades? What the fuck for? Playing tennis?

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Don't no I was referring to that guy busted for stealing gun parts.