Anybody done accurate testing of DB increase to the shooters ear of shorter barrels without muffelers on the end?
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Anybody done accurate testing of DB increase to the shooters ear of shorter barrels without muffelers on the end?
Crap I cant open, "invalid value for registry" whatever that means. ?
Strange, it works for me
20" .223 160dB
18.5" .223 165dB
24" .30-06 160dB
18.5" .30-06 166dB
Gunfire Noise and Hearing
by William L. Kramer, Ph.D.
An estimated 60 million Americans own and use firearms for sporting purposes. Physicians and audiologists know that these people are at risk for noise-induced hearing loss and tinnitus, and often ask their patients if they are hunters. However, gunfire noise exposure from other recreational shooting far outweighs that experienced in hunting.In the U.S., only one-fourth of U.S. gun owners actually do any hunting. Based on a survey of 100 gun owners who did some hunting, an average of 200 shots were fired in practice or competition for every one shot fired at a game animal.
Since 1980, I have been collecting data about firearms and noise, and have measured the loudness of over 7,500 gunshots. Here is what I’ve learned: All gunfire noise ranged from 150 dB to 172 dB SPL. (There was one exception: The .22 rimfire cartridge as fired in a rifle barrel only measured up to 145 dB.) The average loudness for all shots fired was 158 dB. Black powder (antique/replica) firearms noise aver- aged about 3 dB less than conventional (modern, smokeless) powder firearms. Adding any kind of muzzle brake (a device to reduce recoil) added about 11 dB to the normal level. Short barrels were gener- ally louder than longer barrels. The head shadow effect caused the right and left ears to be exposed to different levels of noise. For example, a right-handed rifle shooter has his left ear closer to the muzzle, which means that his left ear gets more noise expo- sure (and damage). The right ear, which is in the “acoustic shadow” of the head, gets 3 to 7 dB less noise exposure.
I collected these data because of my inability to find a reliable and valid source for this type of infor- mation as it applied to firearms used by civilians in recreational and competitive shooting. While the peak
Figure 1 Noise levels for Various Firearms
BARREL AVERAGE RIFLES LENGTH dB SPL
.22 24" 135 rimfire 16" 145
.223 20" 160 18.5" 165
.30 - 0624"160 18.5" 166
decibel is the most frequently reported dimension of the noise, other characteristics, such as the duration and the frequency spectrum or pitch, are also impor- tant. What we think of as a loud “BOOM” may not be as damaging to our ears as a slightly less intense “crack.” An artillery gun (or howitzer) makes a huge “boom” which lasts longer than pistol sound and has most of its energy in the low frequencies. The rifle or pistol “crack” is shorter in duration with most of its energy in the mid to high frequencies. Research has shown that the rifle crack is more piercing and does more damage.
The hearing loss and tinnitus associated with gunfire noise tend to be of a higher-pitched nature. Further, hearing loss from excessive noise often damages hearing at 4,000 and 6,000 Hz with the pitch of any accompanying tinnitus located at the same 4,000 and 6,000 Hz. The tinnitus accompanying my hearing loss (brought on by gunfire before I learned about hearing protection) manifests itself in an inter- esting manner. When I have my hearing tested, I often don’t know if it’s a high-pitched tone coming through the earphones or if it’s the noise in my head. Because I have a high-frequency hearing loss, I don’t hear the telephone when it’s ringing; but my tinnitus makes me get up to answer the phone even when it’s not!
Hearing Protection
Shooters often ask, “What is the best type of hear- ing protection device (HPD)?” I respond by saying: “The one you will wear every time you shoot.” More specifically, there is no single “best” type of HPD anymore than there is a single best car, golf club, or camera. The situation determines what type of HPD needs to be used. Some of the factors involved include the type of firearm (rifle, pistol, or shotgun), weather conditions, tactical considerations (for military, police, or instructors), cost, and comfort. The last two are probably the deciding factors in
BARREL AVERAGE SHOTGUN LENGTH dB SPL
.410 Bore 28" 151.0 18.5" 157.3
20 Gauge 28"
22" 154.8
12 Gauge 26" 156.1 18.5" 161.5
BARREL AVERAGE PISTOLS LENGTH dB SPL
.22 LR 6.75" 151 4.00" 155 2.00" 160
9 mm 5.00"159 Luger 4.00" 163
.45 ACP 5.00" 158
All measurements were made using Bruel & Kjaer precision sound level meters and were made at the ear of the shooter. The sound pressure levels (dB SPL) were based on a minimum average of 10 shots for each type of ammo in each firearm and barrel length.
14 TinnitusToday/June 2002 American Tinnitus Association
So something tells me that 6 db difference on 30-06 is more than one would think?
Had to get a mates bike under some limit to be legal and tho only a few db 3-4 from memory it was about half the noise to the ear.
After If I recall 140db you are causing damage, tinnitus isnt fun when your trying to sleep.
I've got a meter we use at work. Might take it to nzda range on Sunday if anyone is feeling curious about with/without can on.
3db is about twice as loud and the closer the blast to your ear the more damage you till do , but both are not hearing safe
dB scale is logarithmic, 3dB = "twice as loud" from memory
the whole reason for short barrels though is to be able to use a "muffler" without having a stupidly long setup.
Also wouldnt the shorter the barrel be the higher muzzle pressure and more physical noise anyway. that would be more of a negitive effect than the 3 inchs closer to you
I dislike cans and wear hearing protection for all but close range shots.
I already have tinnitus and don't care to make it much worse.
Just thinking how short one could go on an efficient calibre like 308win without massive volume to the shooters ear increase.
I know the old mans rossi (cant remember if 16 or18 inch) is pretty antisocial (without muffeler)with the barnes load I made for it but I am using a relitivly slow powder for barrel length which results in a bit of flame thrower and a lot of Boom!
So your being picky of 135 to 165db? Get a can or get a 22 bro
Sound doubles every 3 db its not like money that doubles when multiplied by 2
Why the dislike for cans?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Well no the whole reason for mufflers is because short barrels are loud,why else would anyone have one but there must be a point where it tips..... a "tipping point" if you will where it is totally impractical to hunt without a can on.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
I have a can because *any* barrel isn't hearing safe.... but a 22 inch barrel with a can becomes cumbersome, so a 19 inch barrel it is
Just another bloody thing on the rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by screamO
why would you want to go def faster then if you all ready have a problem ?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Well no its to shorten so when a can is added its still 'bushable'. Well for me anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
VC you really are a worry after those blaser threads. Have you grabbed a case of brain lag?
Of course, but a can does not automatically make it hearing safe either, in fact it probably wont unless you run subs exclusively.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Anyway, is there a point where db increases dramaticly? like velocity loss, bugger all for the first couple of inches and more for each inch after that?
Or put more simply,how short could I go on a 308 without "Having" to use a can just to be able to use it.
Because I am practical?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
Good cans can lower 16" 308s to under 140db at the ear, supposedly that is "safe." I still use hearing protection where possible as well. But not in the bush. I expect that the odd shot under 140 will not damage my hearing significantly.
You couldn't use a 28" unsuppressed 308 and get under 140db.
Think it was probably I'm a bit death but bugger it I'll keep going bit?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I want my hearing to last till I die.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
that will be up to you as most people find a 22 inch barrel hard on there ears to fireQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I would have thought you could go as short as your allowed (want) if you where just hunting with it regardless of noise because I can never remember how loud a shot was when hunting, a bit like not feeling any recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Put it this way mate. After 85 db your ears dont like it. Rifles and shotties are at about 130+ so unless you muff up or shoot a 1 string group your tinear wont be any better off. Mufflers il have you know reduce your short exposure quite dramatically :D
Fuck i tapped away hard then and was still four posts too slow.
Yeah I carry earplugs and use them as often as possible but if it's not possible I'd prefer occasional exposure to 13x dB which is supposed to be under the "impulse" damage threshold as opposed to 160+Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney
No because you cant hear me!!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
So to reiterate.
I wear hearing protection for all range shooting and these days probably 60% of my own hunting shots.
In the past it was no protection for any shooting.
There has been 4-5 occasions in my hunting life where my own shot has rung my bell so to speak ,all in the bush and blast back to the ear from a big bloody tree or a bank/bluff.
Slow learner maybe but I now recognise those situations that will reflect blast :D
Those few shots a year without protection and with the age and experience to not give a fuck if I pull the trigger or not(so would now recognise a blast back situation and not fire)
My first 308 had a few inches hacked off the end and was ok noise wise if a bit louder, but when would it be obscenely loud or instant irreparable hearing damage loud?
It would not be significant from 22" to 16" noise wise. Still full exposure to too many db instantaneously sorry
120 db is instant damage to a certain degree. I thought.
My 308 is 20". Has a real boom to it. Would be well over 120 db. A mates 6.5 @20" also did the finishing touches, 3 shots and she's ringing 24/7.
I regret that stag ever showed up now.
70% of all my hunting is with plugs & have a can now also.
100% at range.
Where I am at is it would be nice to have a 18-20'' unsuppressed bush 308 if I can get away with it, going by the replies it will "make no difference" it is all hearing bad.
My first 308 had maybe 3 inches cut off so probably 19 inch and I fired many many rounds threw that without hearing protection with no ill effect that I noticed other than the "returned blast" situations mentioned above.
The 16-18 inch rossie is certainly louder but it is running a "too slow" powder load that gives good velocity and accuracy but a noticeable muzzle flash, it is run with a suppressor full time so have no reason to change the load but I would think running a fast powder would negate muzzle flash and blast hence being less loud?
To me for my hunting there is nothing gayer than a 18 inch or even 16 inch suppressed rifle, its not really any shorter, its not lighter, you have a big bulgy can on the end to catch on everything, long range ballistics are dead in the water and most importantly it is just bloody ugly.
So if a 18 inch barrel will have me totally deaf before my daughters tenth birthday (she is 8) firing maybe 4-5 shots a year unprotected then I guess I may as well go 6-10 inch permanently suppressed and forget any shot across a gully or river flat?
What say you suppressor people?
Over the years I never used hearing protection for any shooting or hunting used to have a 18" .308 and man that was bloody noisy way more than a 22" and at age 30 had lost over 40% of my hearing. Now I always use hearing protection but it is too late, I now use hearing aids in both ears and can't hear those bloody stags. My hunting rifle also has a can now wish they were around 30 years ago.
There is a big difference in noise & pressure from 16-22" with a 308 etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
The longer the barrel, the less the pressure at the muzzle & coincidentally the further away from you the noise is.
Suppressed rifles "aren't hearing safe" unless you are using subsonic & even then depending on calibre, surroundings & rounds fired.
Suppressed rifles are more hearing safe than unsuppressed ones
Do you have the db stats to highlight the big difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
I said to an unprotected ear its not going to make a difference. Its too loud either long or short barrel unsupressed.
suppressers are cool imo, if your concerned about the extra bit and bulkiness, just remove your scope and it will make up for having the can:yaeh am not durnk: sorry I have been drinking.....I don't now if there is a right answer for this?
Yes.
In theory I should be totally deaf by now considering my work history and play history and "things that will make you deaf", yet my hearing is not too bad.
I have no wish to make my hearing worse tho.