Shot placement --- how to suck eggs...

Most who have shot a lot of game will be well aware of this but for those that haven't ...

This may be helpful.

I often hear hunters say this projectile is crap "it just ran off" or this one is good it "puts them down hard" and so on and so on based on what they have seen...
I'll repeat what I always say - it's shot placement that matters most.

Both these animals where shot well and what you see here is very typical of what a lot of hunters will experience with the animal doing a small leap then bolting after being shot in this area.

Which is centre shoulder just behind the crease of the front leg...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvkQwHsfDo8

Now the game in the next clip is shot just forward of the front shoulder being the base of the neck...

Same projectile... Same load...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3q46J8WB-s

Now I'm not saying either placement is better than the other this is purely to display how the game reacts to each hit.
Keeping in mind all the hunter ever sees if he's lucky is an animal either falling over on the spot or appearing to just run off... at which point he hastily forms an opinion on the projectile...

... Food for thought

Nice shooting Doc. :thumbsup:

Good shooting, the neck shot, or anything forward of the front shoulder imparts a lot more energy into the spine which may play a part in why it drops them, you aint running nowhere with any decent amount of shock or damage to the spinal cord, it would be interesting to know what shot actually kills the animal faster as I have a feeling that allthough it may stop them on the spot, the animal that was shot forward of the shoulder may not be any more dead than the animal thats running a few steps with a hole through its vitals?

Yea the high shoulder shot usually drops em like a stone also but if a bit to high and hitting only the spine they can take a bit longer to die.....see quite a few vids using the high shoulder/spine shot and usually they quickly cut as soon as the animal drops so you dont see it trieing to lift its head etc.

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Good vid! The bullets flight is nicely captured neatly showing the impact point. At those ranges in that country, I'm guessing it's not a recovery mission.

Love the look on the face of the bystander goat in the second vid. He's all like "WTF just happened"

Yep nice shooting Doc :thumbsup:

Both with the Rifle and the Camera.

Good visuals highlighting shot placement.

Cheers
Pete

Very good Doc"

With a high shoulder shot that doesn't actually smash the spine they often drop only to get up and run off once the shock settles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

With a high shoulder shot that doesn't actually smash the spine they often drop only to get up and run off once the shock settles

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I have had that happen with neck shots on a number of occasions.

Without a doubt shot placement has always been the key to being successful. You hear it all the time that this projectile is crap or that one is great because of what people have observed in the field but doesnt always tell the whole story.
Prime example is people that rubbish certain Cals because they shot a couple of animals that ran off with it and formed a opinion that the Cal is crap:wtfsmilie:
The 243 has been bagged a few times but the fact is its poor shot placement thats the main problem, not the 80gr or 100 gr projectile being too light to knock a deer over .
Its true that some projectiles are better suited for a certain range, ie some soft point 308s are only good for 300 -350m and dont work as good as something else that works well out to 700m etc. Then again some dont expand as good at speed and short range as they do at long range so knowing your projectile and its limits does help using the right tools for the job.
Still, shot placement is everything:)

Good shooting DOC, I totally agree with deer243 re placement of bullets and the bad rap calibers get when things go wrong. Recently when my grandson took a shot at a deer at 243 yards with a 243 and a 90 gr BT the end result was a lost deer. Had he hit the deer 3-4 inches higher he would have had his first deer. Nothing to do with cal or bullet type causing the loss just bullet placement. When the deer ran off after the hit the front left leg was swinging and when we followed up we found a couple of pieces of leg bone.
The 243 is a great performer but you still have to hit them right.

What about right on the shoulder.
Anchors them fast so they can't run with a broken leg, with major vitals behind it. Also helps initiate expansion (hitting bone). A wasted front leg meat being better than loosing the whole animal.

That's always a good shot bully, can't run far with busted shoulders.

Nice videos Doc. Cool how you anticipated the light coloured goat taking a few steps forward as you shot. Highlights the importance of knowing exactly what you are doing when taking extreme range shots at live targets. It could be very easy to inflict a nasty non fatal wound otherwise.

"fucken spot on Bevan"

Loosing 7 deer in a row with a
Poo 4 3 has put me off them for life. I hadn't shot just one or 2 with one by then either. I was meat shooting for a dollar.

Hate the cal with a passion.
Shot a deer with one a couple years ago. Hit perfectly with a good bullet and did not find it until the next morning with a dog.

Haven't used either apart from mentioned above and could count on 2 fingers how many out of the hundreds of animals shot since, that I have lost.
Missed shit loads tho.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bully

What about right on the shoulder.
Anchors them fast so they can't run with a broken leg, with major vitals behind it. Also helps initiate expansion (hitting bone). A wasted front leg meat being better than loosing the whole animal.

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That's the shot I will always take as its fail proof as long as you don't use a projectile that's too explody..
Bull Tahr shot @600 this was the exit wound, entry in same place on opposite shoulder, both shoulders broken and vitals turned to soup. Job done
Attachment 61000

Yes it is food for thought.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzHcWzid7zo This vid is rather good as it talks a lot about angles as well as thinking of where the vitals are shooting into the animal. Only down side is listening to the South African accent plus drums and singing :wtfsmilie: for 35min. If you start at around six min mark.
Just near the end at min mark 31 you have a very good anchor shot example.
I also feel that premium bullets help a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

That's the shot I will always take as its fail proof as long as you don't use a projectile that's too explody..
Bull Tahr shot @600 this was the exit wound, entry in same place on opposite shoulder, both shoulders broken and vitals turned to soup. Job done
Attachment 61000

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Nice knife :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

Loosing 7 deer in a row with a
Poo 4 3 has put me off them for life. I hadn't shot just one or 2 with one by then either. I was meat shooting for a dollar.

Hate the cal with a passion.
Shot a deer with one a couple years ago. Hit perfectly with a good bullet and did not find it until the next morning with a dog.

Haven't used either apart from mentioned above and could count on 2 fingers how many out of the hundreds of animals shot since, that I have lost.
Missed shit loads tho.

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Interesting,losing seven would suggest you shooting too far for the projectile or shot placement was poor for that cal or you were using crap ammo.. Thousands have used the 243 without issues that any other cal doesnt have and i for one can swear i havnt lost one animal, including quite a few very big stags now with just using standard factory 100 gr Fed Powershoks.
They awesome and every animal has bit the dust. Sure, ive missed a few but everyone ive hit got down. A couple took more than one shot (like any cal) but ive hit them in the shoulder, behind the shoulder, a little high, a little low, in the neck, in the chest, just doesnt matter as long as its around that engine room and bobs your uncle.
Its a fact that a 243 projectile best performs hitting bone, and the shoulder area is the best place to down any game here in NZ with one and i always go for the shoulder when i can.
Many use them for Tahr hunting, like Tim from Red stag Timber Hunter club. Its all about range, choice of projectile and shot placement.
Seven in a row isnt the Cal sorry, its poor placement or over extending the range of the projectile you using or if you a good shot like i suspect the ammo you were using was crap.

Thats quite possible because when i first started out with one goat shooting, i bought the most expenisve factory ammo at the time (norma). It struggled to knock over goats, the rounds just didnt expand and even shoulder shots ive have to chase them down and finish them of.
Going to powewrshoks soon fixed that:thumbsup:
The 243 works rather well if you use it within its range have good shot placement like any Cal. Ps Seven in a row would suggest that maybe the rifle was out and not hitting where you think, would explain seven lost in a row if you hitting them a foot to the right Etc than you thought;) as its just common sense to know it wasnt the cal because it works like many cals out there and been proven time and time again

You have just typed a long winded way to tell me how to suck eggs mate😆

Plenty of cullers and meat shooters I have worked with and know, that have huge sample sizes, have had the same hatred for the 2 calibers I mentioned.
They can't all be as incompetent as me😆

I accept a lot of things component wise may have improved since I carried one.

But nothing could ever convince me to ever own a rifle chambered in one again.
Each to their own.
The rifle I had in .243 was one of the most accurate I have owned and I have owned a few over the years.














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"Back in the Day"" its likely that ammo wasnt that great and didnt perform as they do now R93.
I can understand your hatred thou if you losing animals and not getting results as you do with another cal. Like i said, a 243 best perforance is hitting bone and the shoulder always the go to to drop them.
Elk hunting in the States etc they always state if you using a light Cal like a 243 dont aim for the soft part behind the shoulder etc for more penatration. always aim for the shoulder and hit bone, more than capable to drop big Elk if shooting at suitable ranges.
if you meat hunting for a dollar i suspect you not fucking shoulder meat and that would explain a couple of things would it not.
Behind the shoulder the deer tend to run quite a few yards, soon found that out and now its always the shoulder, neck, chest area and they do the business.
When selling to the meat safes years ago when pighunting with mates neck shot deer or head shot always got the best price.
We all know that neck shots need to be bang on or animals that fall over can get up and run off. Recently shot a big stag in the neck with the 308. Bowled it over for it to get up and run off and 5 shots later in total down it went ;) after a chase
Only animal ive lost this year , fact is any animal ive lost in theklast few years was with the 308.
Soild hit that looked good on a yearling. heaps of blood but that yearling went miles and lost it. Was it the Cal? Were the Rem corelolts crap? Should of used the awesome 243 instead?

We know it was just shot placement , didnt quite hit it right, even thou you swear that it was a good hit where i wanted, its that simple. ( the 243 would of pole axed it thou, we all know that:thumbsup::thumbsup:)

I think "back in the day" projectiles were equal in all calibres. The did not single out the .243 to make crappy ones for.
As for shooting Elk with a .243? Probably similar to shooting a big Red with a .223. It can be done but there are MUCH better tools for the job. Most in the States consider the .270 marginal at best.

I think a shot to the rear of the crease, in the ribs, is a valid shot for smaller cals like .223, slower killer but reliable. Great for quartering away shots when you can't get the neck.
However with larger cals I just love taking a front wheel or two out as well as heart and lungs. Not going far on two flat tyres and a hole in the sump, so to speak

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shearer

I think "back in the day" projectiles were equal in all calibres. The did not single out the .243 to make crappy ones for.
As for shooting Elk with a .243? Probably similar to shooting a big Red with a .223. It can be done but there are MUCH better tools for the job. Most in the States consider the .270 marginal at best.

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True, but theres better performing ammo out there now in all Cals than "back in the däy"" hence some CALs, esp lighter ones have made great approvements in perforance. As Elk hunting goes, we know theres better tools for the job, as they big tough animals but some articles were suggesting its still more than capable with good shot placement and range. And that shot placement is the shoulder and hitting bone, not behind the shoulder for more pentration thats all i was saying.
Some say here that in the roar a 243 is too light. i know for a fact its not. I have a 308 as well but in the roar, unless its a area where longer shots are required i take the 243 4 out of five times over the 308.
Why?
Because it just works, its got plenty of knock down power, Every stag ive shot has been with the 243 (apart from a couple with the 308) and they all gone down without much effort. 150kg , hit in shoulder, 10m and dead. I find i shoot slightly better free standing with my 243 than my 308 hence i use that as my go to bush rifle and its never let me down so no need to go to something else.
Plenty of deer been shot with meat hunters for a dollar with a 222 and 223, all about shot placement and with the improvements in ammo in the right hands they still do the business , prob better than the ones that use a "cannon"and aim for the biggest part, she be right mate "mentality

Cor blimey you fullas, let it rest at that :D

Good display Doc of shot placement and the results there of. Most of us have had examples of these regardless of what diameter slug we use. I'm a front of shoulder shooter or I think its known as the hilar area.
Found this sketch, which I think is part of an old thread.

Attachment 61011

R93, Special Jimmy now has a 243 barrel for his Blaser. Now there's a real fu$k up - a great calibre on a blaser!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginga

R93, Special Jimmy now has a 243 barrel for his Blaser. Now there's a real fu$k up - a great calibre on a blaser!

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Dont worry. He doesnt escape my caliber abuse. :D At least it is an improved version. It is still gay as aids tho.

I just purchased a 243 not long ago and used it to secure 2 deer for the summer freezer a few days ago. First one, a 3 year old red - fat as - was dispatched side on through the neck so dropped like a sack of spuds the second one - yearling - was facing me (quartering) with me above at about a 20-30deg angle, I aimed midway along its neck and fired, the projectile traveled down along the neck to the right after hitting where I aimed (long knife like wound about 1 inch deep) and then went "in" on the top of its shoulder. Is that typical behaviour of a lighter pill on a deer? I am currently using 90gr soft points, and have always used 120gr and up on deer (6.5mm)

Angle of shot similar to the pic below, deer was facing me a touch more.

Attachment 61076

First distance maybe 75m, the second around 35m.

deer243...you know well that Im not a huge fan of the EBRG but I agree 100% with your comments....infact the exact same thing gets chucked towards the poohseventy!!!!!!
proper placement and a decent pill matched to animal size make a huge difference
Ive shot deer with 30/30, .270, .223,.22 magnum and even the humble .12ga
all have fallen over and the ones that didnt was due to piss poor placement of shot...... every single animal with front wheels taken out has dropped.

oops forgot the 7.62x39mm not theres a stuffed up cartridge for you...weak,underpowered and not particularly accurate BUT at bush ranges with shoulder/chest shots they go down and stay down.....my worst shot placement was through hips of button stag on the run...the 125grn sierra hollow point .30/30 pill exploded hip bones, and put it down immobile allowing a labotamy shot to be taken.

Classic. Nope he's got a "straight " 243 now. As straight as Jimmy can get....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

Most who have shot a lot of game will be well aware of this but for those that haven't ...

This may be helpful.

I often hear hunters say this projectile is crap "it just ran off" or this one is good it "puts them down hard" and so on and so on based on what they have seen...
I'll repeat what I always say - it's shot placement that matters most.

Both these animals where shot well and what you see here is very typical of what a lot of hunters will experience with the animal doing a small leap then bolting after being shot in this area.

Which is centre shoulder just behind the crease of the front leg...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvkQwHsfDo8

Now the game in the next clip is shot just forward of the front shoulder being the base of the neck...

Same projectile... Same load...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3q46J8WB-s

Now I'm not saying either placement is better than the other this is purely to display how the game reacts to each hit.
Keeping in mind all the hunter ever sees if he's lucky is an animal either falling over on the spot or appearing to just run off... at which point he hastily forms an opinion on the projectile...

... Food for thought

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You are right on the money there Doc IMHO Boiler room shots = follow ups but dead, anywhere in spine where they drop good vid shots btw :thumbsup:

Just got round to watching these agree with above comments, awesome shooting. Some wicked footage of the neck shot on black billy seeing the projectile frame by frame :thumbsup