What method do you use for sighting in your hunting rifle? I play around with the mpb method as I'm more a set and forget type of person. The only data I've found for rough estimates is the chuck hawkes site.
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What method do you use for sighting in your hunting rifle? I play around with the mpb method as I'm more a set and forget type of person. The only data I've found for rough estimates is the chuck hawkes site.
For the average bush hunting to semi-open type hunting, the way you are doing it works. It's accounted for more animals than any other method short of helicopter assisted... The biggest limitation to the method is the average human is crap at range estimation, actually really poor to be fair. It's not hard to be +/- 50 or 100m at range estimation, and when you are at the extremes of the trajectory for your caliber it can end up with the pill passing clean underneath. It's only when you get to ranges outside of the limitations of ballistic drop that require you to adjust your point of aim do you need to go down the track of dialling and adjusting your sighting - this can be at various ranges for different calibers though.
Yea the thing is with dialing you still need to accurately know the range so either way you'll be using a rangefinder. I find estimating range in the bush quite hard. When I'm sitting watching a spot its good to guess ranges and check them.
sighting in new rifle or new scope - I bore sight first ( saves ammo ) - then start at 25 meter generally only need 2-3 rounds - I zero then at 100 meter dead on - I dont generally shoot over 300 meter so thats what works for me -Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
The good old 3x3 rule works for me, even though I have a couple of dial scopes. I dont have the need to shoot beyond 300-350, much easier just to stalk closer. And if you dont dial, you dont need to carry a rangefinder. And if I think I need to hold over the top of the back, I stalk closer.
The rule of three.is on here I've posted it before,not home at computer so can't do it now. Basically it's like this.if you can picture if you will a dead straight pipe 8" in diameter between you and what you want to hit. You sight in so at NO TIME will your projectile hit side of pipe.for most cartridges it works out about 2_3" high at hundy.will be at peak height before 200 and again dead on between 2_300 with the point it hits bottom of your 'pipe' being your maximum point n shoot distance. Easy with .270 as ends up dead on again around 270 yards n drops too low 325ish. Play on ballistic app with what you know n best guess of the rest to find what sight setting suits you best.www.huntingnut has one.side bar to left on main page.pountblank online. Plurry good free way to do it.
If you have a range where you can do it, it's nice to shoot different distances and record bullet drop at each. When running 130 powershoks in my 270 I was 2 1/2 high at 100m bang on at 220m and 7" low at 300m. No dialing needed, aim a tiny bit low up close and a bit below top of back at 300. If shooting wallabies at 300 I aim centre of the head which hits centre of body mass.
3in high @ 100m has always been my go to with my .308 and .243, .44 mag and .22 is bang on @ 50m.
Greetings all,
My "Hunting Rifles" are zeroed at 172 metres for the .308, 200 metres for the 6.5x55 and 120 metres for the little Bergara .308 and the old soldiers. None rise more than 50mm above line of sight out to those distances. This has been the standard for me for a very long time. I can see no point in zeroing normal hunting cartridges at 100 metres (or worse 100 yards or less).
GPM.
Hi there, my 50cents worth (as i get all my newbies at range to do this).
firstly understand what sight line you have, IE scope or open and find mid sight line and then distance to centre of bore (most scopes will be 30-50mm higher than bore so say 40mm) HALVE THIS so 20mm and that should be where yr bullet should hit at 25mtrs. IE 20mm LOW,,,this is for all calibres firing at 2,400FPS or greater. DOES not matter what wonderful calibre you have or think you have.
this will put you @ 30-50mm high at 100mtrs and back down at bull at somewhere close to 200mtrs.
PLEASE use a very good rest and use 3 shot groups and take centre of group as impact point. You are trying to sight your rifle not worry about how wonderful your shooting is, (thats another whole topic).
PLEASE use same ammo for sighting in as what you shoot with and if using a can use that for sighting as well. whatever you take into the field is what you use for sighting in.
Then anything you see out to 250mtrs point and shoot. if its further away you will normally have time to work out distance and then you should in interests of animal and ethics get distance correct if taking a long range shot. (burris eliminator does all the hard work here or get custom turrets, realise thats not for all....). please dont take pop shots at animals at long distance unless you know you can hit them...
Dead on at 200 yards
Attachment 236829
100m zero for everything centrefire, 50m zero for .22LR subsonics.
Sighting in 'an inch or twa eye at a undred yards' is the worst approach for today's world with good scopes (although relatively few and far between), rangefinders with ballistic calculators, ot just a better knowledge of how trajectories work in rifles.
The bullet 'falls' the second it exits the muzzle, due to gravity. Due to this, our sights be it iron or telescopic, must point downwards relative to the muzzle, so you raise the muzzle to aim at the chosen target.
Why a 100m or yard zero?
Most rifle cartridges (2,000 to 4,000 fps muzzle velocity) will be on a relatively constant path till this point, where they will begin to diverge due to ballistic differences (bullet speed and shape). Rifles ranging from about 2,500-3,200 fps will usually require 1 Miliradian or 3 MOA of 'dial' (elevation on sighting device) from a 100m zero to score a hit on a 6 inch target at 300m.
100m is also relatively isolated from factors such as wind deflection and possible muzzle velocity variations of ammo (extreme spread) influence, which would begin at 200 yards or meters. Also, who can judge the accuracy of a rifle that is zeroed to shoot above the target you are aiming at? Do you carry a tape measure to ensure it is always the same distance above your aiming point?
100m zero will mean an almost dead on aim for shots up to about 30m away. Much more usefull for up close shots that must be taken quickly, vs. an imaginary sotuation where the stag of a lifetime is stading 850m away, across a canyon on a perfectly calm day and facing perfectly broadside. The latter situation could still be handled with a good dial scope that zeroed for 100m and dialed in.
hmmm interesting viewpoint...... sure fine n dandy when you dial up and always carry rangefinder....Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
100mtr zero wont make frig all difference at 25-30 yards...in fact most rifles sighted in to be 2-3" high at 100 will infact be zeroed for somewhere around the 27 yard/meter mark.
rifle ISNT zeroed in for a point above aiming mark at all......its zeroed to hit INSIDE an 8" aiming point out to ABOUT 300 yards...and that is the very point of exercise...... no its not for smacking them in the earhole...its for honest chest/shoulder/hillar area shots,point n shoot.
and you have actually AGREED by saying to hit at 300 you will dial in 3moa.......some of us just do it beforehand and leave the twiddling and fiddling of knobs completely out of equasion from then onwards.
different strokes for different folks ...at end of day whatever works for you is correct for you.
Greetings Once More,
The zero ranges of 120, 172 and 200 metres mentioned in my earlier post are the actual ranges that the rifles are shot at. For target shooting at longer ranges and getting a base zero at 300 and 600 yards I make up a target with the aiming point at the bottom and the point of impact at 200 metres for either 300 or 600 yards zero marked on it. This is based on the chronographed velocity for the load and a drop chart for the load. For 300 yards the point of impact is around 150mm above point of aim and for 600 yards from about 600 to 700mm above point of aim. For 1,000 yards a base zero for 600 yards will likely be used at that range to validate both the point of impact and the BC followed by dialling up for 1,000 yards.
Why not just dial up from 100 metres you say? Any error at 100 metres is multiplied by 2.75 at 300 yards and 5.5 at 600 yards rather than half that when shooting at 200 metres.
Regards Grandpamac.
they say a picture is worth a thousand words..... that .270 load is slow and blunt projectile.... but as shown, it does not drop below 4" off point Xhairs are looking at (black line) till 250 yards its zeroed dead on at 200 yards and also as aluded to earlier...pretty darn close to half way between 0 and 50 yards..... so,if you are sighted in for 100 yards on the button...at 30 yards you will still be low/lower as bullet is still rising...not by much but it will be rising.
thats a really old chart...from really old book,way before slippery ELDX type projectiles were around...and rangefinders were no more than a wet dream...... dialing up...yeah right....sight in at range and fire to confirm it....
things have come a LONG WAY since then..but if you were to use this as a basis for sighting in and easy no fluffing around HUNTING rifle ,life just is more simple.....
I dial so I zero bang on at 100. When I walk around with the rifle though I have my dial wound up 1 - 2 moa which replicates a 200m zero and gives me a better max point blank range for rushed shots where I might not have time to dial. I’m also a believer that the most accurate zero is achieved at 100m. If you zero at say 200m and the conditions aren’t perfect then your zero could be influenced by other factors such as wind.
170m zero. 308
gives 50mm high at 100m. and 50mm low at 200.
everything further needs to be dialed.
lower range shots are more likely though which is why I dont want to be off more than 50mm...
Where I grew up, the kill area on a deer was at least as big as a dinner plate - so 300-400mm across. I always sighted my hunting rifles in to be 50mm high at 100 metres - and the kill area on a deer at 100 meters is still the size of a dinner plate.
If I cant hit a dinner plate at 100 - I should stay home .
You guys overthink every thing these days ....
I usually do the X-inches high at 100m for X-metres zero method. Not a long range shooter, no rangefinder or fancy scope so it suits me. My 303 and 223 are sighted in for 180m and the 308 for 200. And usually that works out around the 2 or 3" high at 100 (about 1" high for the 223 & 1.5" for 200m zero).
But I also use the Nikon Spot On app to check zeroes. It's not a super duper flash ballistic calculator; but has most factory ammo (and you can put in custom load velocities etc) and is a good basic free app. It was very helpful when I first bought the 223 as tere was so much conflicting advice about zeroes. You can scroll through the (Nikon) scope models in the app to get something that matches what you have. All mine are basic Bushnell Elite 3-9's and a 2.5-10 on the 223, so pretty easy to find a similar scope. The app might not be everyone's cup of tea; but works well for me. Cheers :)
https://spoton.nikonsportoptics.com/...spoton.html#:4
@sportco62 I watched a NZ deer hunting video a while back where the deer popped out at (ranged with a rangefinder) 200m. They took so long messing around dialing for 200m that they missed the shot. I just thought; that since the rifle was probably sighted in to be dead on at 100m if they were dialling it; just aim 2" or 3" higher at 200m! Not a tricky calculation.... I could understand them dialling if it was for a long shot thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by sportco62
This is not correct:Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
https://youtu.be/cvkpL4f87WA?feature=shared
Bullets don't 'rise', it's the peddling of such mumbo-jumbo that makes new shooters confused due to all the poor info out there. And proves that many 'experts' who write in hunting mags don't have a clue and prepetuate bad info because it is generally accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Your methods involve a guesstimate of where the bullet will impact. I've seen front legs blown off due to such 'guesstimates', as if the deer is significantly smaller, the whole 'maximum point blank range' method is in the bin.
Personally range most clearings so I have a good idea already of the general range for when deer appear there. The quality of rangefinders has increased exponentially as price and size has decreased.
People should be encouraged to improve and try new methods, as you can revert back if things don't work.
Had a blast with @stagslayer 12 zeroing the remmys at 100 yards and yes stagslayer confimerd the distance with his range finder.
Attachment 236941
4 Shots with his new scope to zero.
Attachment 236942
3 Shots and mine was on.
Bloody spring grass, makes shooting from a bipod a pain in the arse!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
I reckon what you are describing here is lack of shooting skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
If one doesn't understand what "rising" means in this context it indicates further lack of important basics.
Many new "hunters" have not grown up on a paddock shooting rabbits with a 22 from the age of "just barely able to walk"
And sadly the availability of institutions that help beginners to learn to properly shoot so they can hunt in a safe manner is very limited. Although that would be the only way forward to ensure hunting and shooting does not get banned eventually.
I just set my 308 tikka at 2 1/4" high at a hundy =2 1/4" low at 260yds,5 1/2"low at 300yds from line of sight.No need to be adjusting scope every hunt,most deer are inside 250yds.Bit different for the long range hunters,400-600yds they gota range and dial.And have a lot of practice behind them.
The NZDA HUNTS course cover all this stuff for beginners.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
One range day, mostly used for sighting in rifles, does not make a proficient shooter out of a beginner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
The HUNTS course is great, but it can only do so much.
And this is why all new firearms users should be encouraged to join a relevant club and get first hand knowledge rather than some of the BS from the internet. There is a lot of good stuff on the internet but also a lot of dangerous tripe. The novice will not know the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
GPM.
100% agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Joining clubs and organizations also helps to strengthen these institutions and push back against nonsensical legislation. so its a win-win.
If your line of sight IS perfectly horizontal your bullet gains altitude by 2-4" on way to its trajectory peak.....is that better???ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
I don't own a rangefinder but are proficient in using a topo map or topo app to best guess range.and because I simply do not shoot deer at ranges I judge are more than 350 yards and will only shoot past 250 yards if conditions are great and using the .270.... It's irrelevant.i point n shoot and stuff dies,I clean miss at close range more often than out past 150....
True, projectiles are falling from the moment they leave the muzzle, but they do rise in relation to line of sight. I think anyone with a passing relationship with ballistics understands this. There’s plenty of info out there such as in reloading manuals and from ammo manufacturers. As to using ‘point blank range’ method of sighting in, it’s worked well for many years ffs. If you’re not sure about range estimation either don’t take the shot or fecking get closer. It’s not as if hunting isn’t the easiest it’s been for years now due to animal numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
Watched the Vid but failed to spot anything that refuted what I wrote. It was more about variability of muzzle velocity both actual and read. The dispersal of small errors at 100 metres to larger ones at longer range is simple mathematics.Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
One thing I have noted for fixed focus scopes is the tendency to shoot slightly better groups, measured in MoA at 200 metres compared to 100. I've put this down to parallax. The principal reason many, including me in the past, have trouble shooting decent groups at longer range is too small an aiming mark.
Regards Grandpamac.
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I had spotted the low BC and the 170 grain weight but didn't twig it was the .270 club (or projectile take your pick). I often wondered how many people had used them.
Grandpamac.
Ha ha I always laugh when journalists refer to someone shot at "point blank range" with the journo having absolutely no idea what point blank range actually is. Sounds good to the readers/viewers though so that's all that matters I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by woods223
The HUNTS instructors can't hold the student's hand forever so it is up to them to make an effort to practice, join in club range shoots & hunts to become more familiar with their rifle. I believe most NZDA clubs require the student to be a member to do the course.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
The info you get out of a hunts coarse,range days and club hunts is priceless.
