The intention to wound was in training back in my day. The rationale was akill = 1 out wher a would = 3 or 5 out (depending on evacuation distance for stretcher bearers)Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
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The intention to wound was in training back in my day. The rationale was akill = 1 out wher a would = 3 or 5 out (depending on evacuation distance for stretcher bearers)Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
through my 17 years of service we were always taught to shoot for centre of mass but told the 5.56mm projectile while it may well be lethal would more than likely wound and it's unstable movement characteristics within a body would create a large wound channel. the wounding of the enemy was thought to be more effective than killing them as it took more people off the battle field, the one that's wounded, two to carry them and one to tend to the wounds. while this may not always be the case, as far as I am aware it is still the methodology used within the NZ forces today. the forces were in the process of changing projectile weights when I left mid last year, not sure if that was completed as as they were intended to be for the new intermediate length barrels on the upgraded steyr's.
It still is Rushy. That is all I was trying to point out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushy
7.62 wounds as well. Youre trained to hit what you aim at. If it kills or wounds who gives a fuck as long as you hit it first. COD fanboys may think you fly around the battlefield making headshot kills at whim but that is fantasy not real world.
Just read what I typed. Fuck I should slow down with this one finger I use.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
What a load of crap , what they will replace the AUGs ( 20 inche , 1-7 twist ) with is a short M4 variant ( 14.5 inche barrel ) , YEAp that will solve all your long range problems , every one knows you GET more range & power from a short barrel rifle .
RE the 30cal Minimis , thats not what I would have brought , Opps , as its to lite and will not handle the abuse of a L7/MAG58 EVER , and thats about correct weight & design to last tens of thousandes of rounds .
The C9 Minimi , is not with out its faults either , a couple of mods would do wonders , but at least it was not going to loosen yours fillings .
Probably the best very lite GPMG in a full cal , is the Russian PKM , better than a NEW 7.62 Minimi , in my opinion .
So in the current vain , lets also chop the C9 barrels to 13 inches ( Para Minimi ) and thats just for long range in mountains , makes prefect sense .
Later Chris
6-5 Grendel
Until Nato changes caliber we are stuck with the 5.56 and 7.62 for service weapons. Pretty stupid running around a battlefield with a unique caliber when you have run out of first line ammo.
That's what they should change too
Oh. Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
I prefer the Ugo SX 52 14" in the new 6.5 Groan. Its rate of fire far exceeds the M27 that the Australians are currently introducing. And theSX 52 is problem free and uses the groan which is the most accurate military calibre ever commissioned.
Of course, we will follow the yanks like we always do and end up with the M26 which is miles behind the M27 let alone the SX 52, and we all know about the jamming troubles the M26 had in Iraq.
Defence is led by a bunch of wombles anyway, and I have no confidence that they will make the right decision. Look at the complete waste of time the minime RP 5.27 was, they can't even source ammo for them now.
And gimp, if you want references, go find them yourself. I know that all of this is correct.
What we need is fricken laser beams :thumbsup:
5.56 is great as a military round, same with the 7.62x51, 338LM and 50bmg. They all have their places.
You can't have your cake and eat it to, 5.56 may lack range in some situations but then you can carry 2-3(?) times the ammo than you could with a 7.62x51, great in a firefight having all that extra ammo.
I see the importance of sticking with the NATO ammo and hope the next rifle takes STANAG mags. I also see the merit in sticking with the same weapon as Australia or USA or GB, conventional wars (if there is ever another one) are won with logistics. In fact I don't even know why they bother wasting money on testing weapons, they should just get whatever Australia, USA or GB does and use the money saved on live fire training.
I like the steyr, I find it far more ergonomic than a M4.
This is getting a bit out there. People that are not military in any sense, suggesting what they should do and buy. I thought that sort of advice only come out of the beehive:D
There is a military term that used to be used: "Troops to task" Same goes for equipment. The role of our army has to be fully understood before anything like weapons can be decided upon. How many people on here know what that is?;)
We follow the Yanks, Canucks, Aussies and Brits because they are our allies and within reason there is a need to be totally modular throughout Nato as far as troops and training goes.
Weapon accuracy in assault weapons and LMG's is not really that important. Winning the intial fire fight in any engagement is most important. Things generally fall into place after that. Caliber of a weapon has little to do with it at the end of the day.
5.56 and 7.62 are as good as anything in order to achieve those goals, end of story. Not to mention the needless financial cost throughout Nato if there was a change of caliber.
If the defence force rang me up and said "We got a rifle here you owned,do you want it?" Yes please but like that's gona happen.:)
Bro! You were in first battalion. How can they possibly know which spoon was yours?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
I would love my issue 226 and rifle to be given to me.
You shouldn't really dis me. I read many war comics when I was a young man, and I would have been conscripted into the army if I had been born on another date.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
And I have noticed that Blaser have added the the 6.5 Groan to their latest range of calibres. Kiwi Greg is building an improved version of the cartridge almost as we speak (sorry, type).
by now your 226 is probably completely fucked and your steyr is only your steyr in serial number alone. I want the m60's I used as a door gunner in Timor I think they would look awesome mounted on my series 1 landrover.
I know better to diss you. Depending on what war comics you have read it could have meant an elite soldier posting. I was just a grunt so, know better not to mess with the SAS (Saturday and Sunday) soldiers:thumbsup: No disrespect intended to anyone else either. I just find it interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
My P226 had 20,000 thru it, and still blitzed the accuracy test.Quote:
Originally Posted by lostlegend
Unfair. I bet Rushy got to keep his Martini-enfield from the Boer war:)
It certainly makes you wonder how many rounds have gone through the weopons we used till the present date.:roll:
Talking of wounding didn't the yanks put heaps of research in to developing a hi velocity, tumbling projectile for military use, mainly to wound, probably 30-40 yrs ago. Shit should have talked to me, I have trouble with oblongs thru the target, still I have more chance of getting the bull?
He sold it to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
we used to count all rounds fired through aircraft weapons including the helicopter machine guns, they would have fired stuff all compared to the weapons you grunts would have used.
I can remember chewing thru 15-16 tins of link during an SF shoot once. Close to around 13000 rnds for one shoot. That included balancing, marking and recording.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lostlegend
bullets cost money, the bean counters wouldn't let you fire off that much these days. they take all the fun out of things.
I don't know that we ever counted the number of rounds but I can remember a heavy barrel on a GPMG glowing red on sustained fireQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
Yup. Almost white Rushy. Got/had 5 barrels per gun when I last had a play. Changed on a belt or 500 each I cant remember exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushy
Was this Rushys or Daves one?
Attachment 14232
Sorry guys its had a bit of wood taken off it.
Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2
Cant be Rushy's. It is missing its ram-rod and wick.:thumbsup:
I served where and when we only used 'Column of Route' for drill.
It was Rushy's main battle formation.:D
Aaah but you have to agree the box formation was a bloody good defence strategy against the fuzzy wuzziesQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
As Private Rushy, serving in the Sudan with General Kitchener, once said "The Fuzzy Wuzzies do not like the cold steel, oh no sir, they do not like it up 'em...!"
The Fuzzy Wuzzies are coming. Fix bayonets! They don'y like it up 'em sar. Box formation! Front row kneeling!
You'd be supprized at what we put through the 20mils ,they were serviced every 3000 (muzzle blast deflector changed ect) and at 12000 a barrel change.With a 75 rnd can,and that is each side, (later 50's) sometimes 4 times a day (and then the sods gave us 100 rnds ,and told us afterwards 2 people should have lifted it not 1) with hardly a week without gunnery.Quote:
Originally Posted by lostlegend
And then from memory the Blunty's used 100rnds each side and it all adds up.
Bolt action Tikka's, thats the way to go I reckon, save the tax payer heaps on ammo cost, bloody accurate out of the box, layoff a few amourers will mean more $$$ saved and when they wear out just throw them away and buy a new one.
Lets face it they are not a fighting force anymore, apparently they are a re-construction team, chippies, plumbers, sparkies and blockies.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Not if you do the DFSW course. You shoot off ammo till you're bored az - then you clean guns for 4 days.
Easily the best place to be in an assault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead is better
I like my T3 but against an AK its just outclassed. Sending our Infantry up against anyone armed with bolt action rifles is basically setting them up for slaughter. They'd keep your head down till his buddies get close enough to hit you with the multitude of lead that auto's send downrange. We'd be better using 7.62 if they were expecting to deploy in farmland like Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by 300winmag
Haha you'd think that - that's why they invented artillery and mortars!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eion
[QUOTE=veitnamcam;160213]Was this Rushys or Daves one?
Attachment 14232
Sorry guys its had a bit of wood taken off it.
Nar VC, Rushies was a 'black bess'......they didnt called him 'ramrod' for nothing!
