Thread: Testing light 22's

Hello Gentlemen

I have a 1415-1416 (with a shortened barrel) that is a really sweet little rifle, and it "seems to want to shoot". I have been through many ammo types and found a couple it likes.

I say "seems" because although I can shoot some small groups, there are still too many "strung" shots.

My goal is the "CanadianGunNutz" challenge of 5 groups of 5 shots at 50 yards, all on the same bit of paper - all under 0.5" BUT its not happening yet at least.

I think the main issue is my technique, I've been playing with it and can "move" the point of impact with different holds and hold weight. It seems to most like a minimal hold and shot almost free recoil (or what I understand to be free recoil). I am shooting from a very solid bench only in perfect wind conditions.

You wisdom on how to rest, bag and hold such a rifle to achieve best results would be appreciated - or anything else I might have missed, like maybe I should be using a bipod??

@mudgripz and others . . . . .

Thanks
Foster

Originally Posted by Tentman

Hello Gentlemen

I have a 1415-1416 (with a shortened barrel) that is a really sweet little rifle, and it "seems to want to shoot". I have been through many ammo types and found a couple it likes.

I say "seems" because although I can shoot some small groups, there are still too many "strung" shots.

My goal is the "CanadianGunNutz" challenge of 5 groups of 5 shots at 50 yards, all on the same bit of paper - all under 0.5" BUT its not happening yet at least.

I think the main issue is my technique, I've been playing with it and can "move" the point of impact with different holds and hold weight. It seems to most like a minimal hold and shot almost free recoil (or what I understand to be free recoil). I am shooting from a very solid bench only in perfect wind conditions.

You wisdom on how to rest, bag and hold such a rifle to achieve best results would be appreciated - or anything else I might have missed, like maybe I should be using a bipod??

@mudgripz and others . . . . .

Thanks
Foster

1st of all you need to be inside...even with flags (I assume you have good ones) outside is very very difficult

You can achieve itoutside but yes its hard and you need completely still conditions. Have had several basic sporter 22s that have or could meet that condition on our outdoor range, but you need everything right to get it. In rimfire bench tests I usually shot four 5 shot groups, not 5, but have no doubt the rifles could continue for another group. Some obvious thoughts that work off bench for me..

You definitely need some luck with your ammo batch - no fliers or variation. You need to be seeing perfectly - and that for me means not before 10-11am - don't ask me why. I usually use a small sandbag set and spend time getting it exactly into position. Body position will vary depending on your bench/table etc. Then its all about positional pressures - firm to the shoulder but zero pressure compensating in any hold direction. If it ain't balanced don't shoot. Try to move minimally between shots - as little disruption as possible. Watch your breathing - I often shoot in first few seconds of the outbreath. And be very conscious of parallax as you settle into shooting position - depending on scope. Take a little time to position scope into center of that 1" dot out at 50m, and get feel, the sight of precisely quartering it with crosshairs. It can come down to hold balance, the ounces of pressure, the milimeter precision quartering the dots.

Foster it seems to me that free recoil with minimal contact is the likeliest to achieve best groups. But an alternative is to try (heresy to some) the big tight fitting front bag with and without a hand gently resting on the scope or knox form if open sights. ‘The Real Gunsmith’ on Patreon/YouTube demonstrates it quite succinctly. Horses for courses and trial and error, frustrating when we’re also dealing with other variables like wind and ammo quality. BTW you’re welcome to a brick of the Norma if you can get it to you from Auckland.

Hey - Thanks for all the input guys, I changed scopes to a 4-14 AO I have to gain a bit more magnification. I shoot at home so can whip out when there is NO wind and have at it, a great luxury

I got some advice off Rimfire Central to try a hold with the fore-end rested and downward pressure from underneath with the left hand and it seems to be working - so your advice @HandH is probly not far off either and I'll try it.

I'm sure my groups are getting a bit more consistent, they are now hovering pretty reliably round the 0.7" mark with CCI Std Target. When I'm satisfied I'm dead consistent vizaviz shooting the rifle I'll go back to using the expensive match ammo I have. I sorta think that I don't need the most accurate ammo to make this challenge, I need the most consistent so I don't have ammo fliers.

well I would if anyone would associate with me - besides @Kiwi-Hunter & co, oh and there are a few others

Have a balanced hold that does not drift when you close your eyes, prone with sling (ground is less wobbly than most tables!), grip with handshake strength, push firmly into shoulder, breathe halfway out and hold, slowly squeeze trigger, follow through.

I would not be expecting extreme accuracy from the Anschutz 1415/16. Gunsmith friend had one and it was consistent with grouping around 0.7" at 50m from memory, but not outstanding. I think it is a rifle from the Savage/Anschutz collaboration period - am unsure which company made which parts:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=370469

My experience of Savage standard barrel Mark 2s on range was good but not great - consistent grouping around the 0.7" at 50m - same as mate's experience with his 1415/16. 1415 appears a basic little rifle but no Annie 54. If you're after consistent sub 0.5" groups across 5 consecutive groups for your challenge it may not be the rifle. (results will vary with different examples)

This one is marked 1415-1416, there have been a million Annie model variations but I believe it is a different era to the 1415/16's . . . .

It is trying to shoot. I got up early (zero to a tiny bit of wind) and shot groups. Tried a new technique - bipod loaded against a really big sack of sand on the bench. The CCI went a little better than it had been going so switched up a gear to Eley Club. First group with it was 0.14 (yup a true one holer) and after 3 additional groups I was sitting on an average of exactly 0.5 for the 4 groups. Fifth one blew out but I'm pretty confident now that with good ammo, a lot of concentration and a teeny weeny bit of luck I can make the challenge (5 groups all under 0.5").

Next sessions will try Eley Edge and Eley Match (both of which it looked like it would shoot with in early testing - its not real fussy for a .22)

That is good shooting...keep it up. Yes my cobber's Annie 1415/1416? was an average shooter but have not tried one myself. I know little about the production variation details with Annies using Savage model 34/65 components etc. Some research reading for somebody...

I tested another one a few years ago, I don't recall exactly what model it was but it had the true 64 action and a decent trigger - it had done a fair bit of work but was in nice condition. Didn't shoot that well and I gave it back to the shop. Knowing what I know now I'd have cleaned it differently. The design of the Anschutz sporter crown is supposedly prone to getting a crusty formation (crusty crown) and it plays merry hell with accuracy but is easily fixed . . . but the current one is as new so thats not an issue just now.

I have had great success with CCI-subs (if you havent already tried them ), in .22's that only shot 'okay'. It turned a Zastava I foolishly-sold, into a laser

Originally Posted by rewa

I have had great success with CCI-subs (if you havent already tried them ), in .22's that only shot 'okay'. It turned a Zastava I foolishly-sold, into a laser

Yup - tried CCI subs and I use them in several 22's, including my Unique 22 semi, which shoots them better than any other hollowpoint I've found. I'm currently using CCI Target (pretty much a solid sub) as a benchmark for testing changes and warming up. The problem with CCI subs is about 1-in-10 to 2-in-10 are out of spec. You'll find that they shoot some really nice groups, but over more than 10 or so rounds you get fliers, which makes shooting 5 groups to count on the same page pretty much impossible

If you are buying Eley ammo you can check its performance on the Eley Lot analyser web sight here https://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser , Just enter the batch (lot) number and it should come up with a series of groups shot through 4 different test barrels so you can judge how good your ammo might be. This is not definitive but just an indication of what you could expect. Eley have recently in the last year or two changed they way they display the lot/batch numbers on the boxes of target ammo, they used to include the speed which was helpful when selecting ammo that might shoot well in your rifle, but have now stopped that.

Originally Posted by skams

If you are buying Eley ammo you can check its performance on the Eley Lot analyser web sight here https://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser , Just enter the batch (lot) number and it should come up with a series of groups shot through 4 different test barrels so you can judge how good your ammo might be. This is not definitive but just an indication of what you could expect. Eley have recently in the last year or two changed they way they display the lot/batch numbers on the boxes of target ammo, they used to include the speed which was helpful when selecting ammo that might shoot well in your rifle, but have now stopped that.

Hey - Thanks for that, its a fascinating exercise to see what the ammo you have did, I learnt a lot from it. Mainly that .22 ammo is even more variable than I'd thought. The results from the ammo lots I have make a bit of a mockery of some of the accuracy claims made by folks on the interweb (unless they are lucky enough to be able to beat the laws of statistics!) Its also a learning experience from the point of view of learning how one can analyse accuracy statically.