Thread: Another Vintage project and what happens when .....

So the Vintage Rifle scene has been pretty quiet on the forum lately and it falls to me to stir things up

So what happens when that crazy old rifle guy ( old rifle not old guy ? ) buys a SHOTGUN

Well me buying a shotgun is about as out of character as my buying a Martini rifle !

Now I have several forum members to think for my getting this shotgun.
One alerted me to its availability to be purchesed
One did the pick up from the vendor and held it for me
Another did the final pick up and transport to CHCH where I finally got to see my prize, after being told by all that I would be delighted when I finally saw it.

Oh and they weren't wrong.

So what I had brought was and Army & Navy ( from now referred to as A&N ) back action hammer single barrel 16 gauge shotgun.
Why would I buy such a thing ?
Well this A&N is made by Webley. A&N were a retailer and the vast majority of their single barrel rifles were made by Webley. Actually we can date the Webley singles ( records lost in WW2 ) from the A&N data base because thye used the Webley serial numbers.

Well I brought it because the 16 gauge is made on the exact same frame as my Webley 500 3" BPE



I thought it would be nice to have and see if the frames were the same of similar sizes.
Turns out they are as near as identical as they could be allowing for them being maybe made 5 to 10 years apart

The A&N is in nearly 100% condition externally and definitely 100% mechanically and bore.

The stock was a little dull and dirty.
But a quick solvent clean and 20 coats of stock oil brought it back to life



Metal work needs nothing done

Gorgeous!

So what use is a mint vintage nitro proofed 16 gauge shotgun ( to a rifle guy ) that only weighs 4 3/4 pounds ?

Actually not much !
It came with half a box of Winchester 16 gauge 3/4 oz solid slugs.
They were remarkably accurate from the beaded barrel with no sights .... BUT the recoil was ferocious. Very fast recoil velocity and massive muzzle flip

The frame and barrel breech face are identical to my original 500 3" BPE which weighs 7 1/2 pounds and is quite lively with a full working load in that

Wow! thats a nice looking shotgun. Theres no reason you couldnt turn up some 16g brass cases and sort out a light load for busting bunnies or having fun.

Group at 50 yards was under 4" and well low of point of aim

Crikey

Sadly a Nitro cylinder bore 16 gauge shotgun under 5 pounds is of no use to anyone
I knew that when i brought it
But was curious to see if ( as it looked ) it was built on the same frame as my 500 3"

Which it is

So i now have two new 458 32" Long barrel blanks
And again thanks to another forum member I have dies incoming for a 45 cal modified case that i intend putting into this 16 gauge barrel

Why 458 ? Well i calculated a liner would add just over 2 pounds and I would be at around 7 pounds even
458 is always a good idea for any rifle

There is one small niche in my collection that needed to be filled
A vintage light nitro bush stalking rifle

First thing I did in the conversion process is solder on a period correct front sling eye
This needs to be done before the liner is fitted an epoxied into the barrel



Now wait for a block of quality workshop time to start on the barrel blank, wildcat dies, brass and chamber reamer

16 gauge nitro frame



VS 500 3"BPE frame

Could this be the 577-450?

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Could this be the 577-450?

That would have been nice but it wouldn't be nearly heavy enough when finished
A 7 pound even 577-450 would not be the nicest rifle to shoot well

But @Ross Nolan I like your thinking

Someone. Cough cough... With a significantly heavier frame in the shoulder area... Cough cough... Could test it for you
Just saying

Originally Posted by Boxton

Someone. Cough cough... With a significantly heavier frame in the shoulder area... Cough cough... Could test it for you
Just saying

Noted @Boxton
But aside from it being a bit light for a 577-450 the area of the head of that case is much larger than the area of the head of a 45-70 case.
So the force exerted on the breech face will be greater assuming similar pressure loads.
And the 577-450 being such a big diameter case the liners chamber minimum wall thickness numbers just don't work

Also I am not silly enough yet to build a rifle so powerful that i wouldn't test or shoot it myself ... but the day will come

45-110?
45/120?
450 BPE?