Thread: Hawkins 45cal Black Powder project

have the odd project lying about

an L42 rebuild, a Lovells pattern carbine (NZ Marked) that needs some love, a couple of old muskets that need to have their fate decided on and this!

a loverly Hawkins that ive some time ago fixed the stock and then put away, needs some work and a mold to start casting from!

found this post on another forum

.45 barrel, 32" long, 1" across, .45 bore, .459 groove, 6 lands. 1:22 for 350 and 450 grain bullets, 1:40 for 300 grain bullets and round ball.
.38 barrel, 1:18, 270 grain bullet.
.58 barrel, 1:66 for round ball only.

Ive the 32inch barrel but im a little confused with the 270.40 marking on the barrel, is that the optimal projectile weight for the rate of twist?

if so does anyone have a similar beast and what are they using for molds? loads etc........ im a little new to BP rifles!

@Marty Henry @Micky Duck @Maca49 thought you might like this

Like button has disappeared
But i do like this

Well it looks like a cross over light conical and ball muzzleloader

If you can find a mold I can cast you anything
You need to use pure lead
Don't try wheel weights or stuff like that as too hard to expand and grip the rifling

I have a 50 cal so can't help with molds but you should be able to find .45s easy enough

@akaroa1 thanks, ive a few 100 kgs of lead here , along with a lube sizer, RCBS pro melt etc, ive a few cals i cast for! i guess i need to take it apart again and slug the bore? then casts a mold and size it to a thou or two over the size of the bore, ive a 457 socom mold somewhere? and a few 45cal pistol molds but not sure how they would go!

wait to you see the musket projects

Im GUESSING its a .40 calibre that likes 270 grain projectiles???
I buy my .45 cal cast projectiles from Shootersnz....

LOVELY RIFLE I am envious.

@Micky Duck yeah i had the same thought, then i got the old micrometer out and........

maybe 40 grns of black,behind 270 grn projectile...heck that owuld almost have to be a round ball /mini wouldnt it to get that light???
where are the black powder gurus who KNOW about these things????

@Tertle
You don't need to size muzzleloader projectiles
The conicals driving bands are smaller at the heel and their diameter increases towards the front of the projectile.
Thats so you can start it concentric in the bore easily on the first band and they get progressively tighter to start as you force it in.
The heel expands under ignition pressure and grips the riflling and seals in the gas, with the help of the lube.
If you size them they will be either drop in too easily or be very hard to start square into the bore

The Lee REAL .45 muzzleloader mold will get you started and they come in a few weights for each caliber.
Depending on what you want to do with it that might be all you need unless you are going after big game

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

maybe 40 grns of black,behind 270 grn projectile...heck that owuld almost have to be a round ball /mini wouldnt it to get that light???
where are the black powder gurus who KNOW about these things????

.45 round ball is 138 grains

.50 round ball is 178 grains my hunting conicals are more than twice the weight of the round balls

so my good man WHAT DOES the 270.40 mean????

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so my good man WHAT DOES the 270.40 mean????

Well it's unlikely to be 1:40 shown that way.

So my pick is 270 grain conical with a 40 grain load of FFG
Seems a light load so might have been set up to the requirements of who ever ordered it from Tony Hawkins
Maybe a good target load that doesn't beat you up.

I use 80 grains FFFG behind a 395 grainer in my 50 cal.
Hence why i think its a light target or small game load.

I use FFFG because my barrel is only 25"

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so my good man WHAT DOES the 270.40 mean????

lol im still scratching my head too!

so just went out to man cave, found the following selection of 45's



@akaroa1 thanks for that i was thinking as the bulk of my 45 cal molds except for a webley are not hollow based to allow and are a little over .45, if i remember rightly .455 .46 .462 was thinking if i slug the bore and then size to say a couple of thou over bore size i wouldn't stuff and driving bands?

but as you can see ive a fair bit of size / weight to tinker around with!

owwwww of back to man cave......powder time, what do i have????

Here is a boolit produced by a genuine Tony Hawkins mould. When you purchased one of his rifles you usually purchased his mould as well.
My cousin shot very successfully in BP comps with a Tony Hawkins Hawken. The pictured boolit is one of his. Tony also supplied him a short length of barrel cut from his barrel which was machiined with a lead to allow him to presize his projectiles. IIRC my cousin seated a hard card wad over the powder and then seated the boolit.

I don't know what twist his barrel was.

The same boolit I used in my Martini-Henry also very successfully. I paper patched.



500.5 grains.

For a while I shot one of Tony's muzzleloaders in 38 cal.

@Tertle

The right hand side second from the bottom are Lee REAL Rifling engraved at loading Hence REAL
They are for muzzleloaders

What do they weigh ?
Lube them, stuff in 40 grains of FFG throw one down the bore, stick a cap on and give it a go

Maybe not if you live in town though !