Thread: Pump Action STEN MKII

Hello hello hello! What do we have here then? You boys making trouble again!

She won’t like that one little bit

Get in there

just dont paint i black that will not be safe for nz

The Sten layout is not worth it as (a) you can't have big long magazines anymore and (b) avoiding free standing pistol grips is a non-issue now.

Having a giant return spring (or just room for one) will also make it a potential semi / full auto convertible gun. Real potential for trouble.

The lower pressure 9mm is definitely more suitable for home projects compared to centrefire rifle cartridges. But better design something less SMG cool looking from the ground up and use more of the magic >30" legal rifle length for barrel.

IMHO-if you produced one and Costers Cavalry sighted it ,those in power would make it illegal before you could fart .lets face it anything remotely resembling a military firearm scares the shit out of this mangy mob running our once proud nation. However even if its declared legal youd almost certainly guarantee CC would ensure their regulations etc made your business borderline or personally unbearable .Alas as has been blatantly proven this is modern reality.
In fact id go as far to politely request Gundocs opinion on the issue.
DO not get me wrong -its not personal merely my observations.

Originally Posted by kotuku

IMHO-if you produced one and Costers Cavalry sighted it ,those in power would make it illegal before you could fart .lets face it anything remotely resembling a military firearm scares the shit out of this mangy mob running our once proud nation. However even if its declared legal youd almost certainly guarantee CC would ensure their regulations etc made your business borderline or personally unbearable .Alas as has been blatantly proven this is modern reality.
In fact id go as far to politely request Gundocs opinion on the issue.
DO not get me wrong -its not personal merely my observations.

@gundoc

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

Originally Posted by gundoc

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

So I take it, if someone wishes to copy a gun and make it, then it would be best if they picked a decent gun to copy......That would explain why I never saw a kit car for a Morris or a Skoda. These are not things anyone wants to copy- they dont really want a real one to start with....

I'd be wary of making or owning any pump centre fire at the moment. A nine mill bolt would be a fun plinker though.
Sten guns were only designed to be adequate. "Point at group of enemy and spray" If the Germans followed through after Dunkirk the poms would have been fucked without it. Out of interest what were the poms using for SMG's prior to the Sten?

Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

thompsons

Originally Posted by gundoc

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

Suppose in dire 1941 when fighting for survival 'adequate' made you feel really good.

The adequate design is part of a bigger picture of how the British did things. I read about the "boffin" technological warfare in WW2, suitcase radios etc. The British had a policy of "You have 3 months to develop it, and what you can come up with is what we'll produce!" On the other side, Germans took too long perfecting their designs with top brass also keeping on "improving" specifications .... so most of their otherwise brilliant developments were of zero to limited use as they did not enter mass production. An obvious example are the many Volkssturm simplified rifles made which cost a lot in R&D and tooling setup, but which all used StuGw-44 magazines. Ian 'Gun Jesus' at Forgotten Weapons pointed out that it would have been far more effective just to make more StuGw-44s.

Anyway, I digress. I'm interested in your take on the Patchett/Sterling SMG versus the Sten, they being of similar vintage.

integrally suppressed with a ported barrel would be cool as hell

Originally Posted by Cordite

Suppose in dire 1941 when fighting for survival 'adequate' made you feel really good.

The adequate design is part of a bigger picture of how the British did things. I read about the "boffin" technological warfare in WW2, suitcase radios etc. The British had a policy of "You have 3 months to develop it, and what you can come up with is what we'll produce!" On the other side, Germans took too long perfecting their designs with top brass also keeping on "improving" specifications .... so most of their otherwise brilliant developments were of zero to limited use as they did not enter mass production. An obvious example are the many Volkssturm simplified rifles made which cost a lot in R&D and tooling setup, but which all used StuGw-44 magazines. Ian 'Gun Jesus' at Forgotten Weapons pointed out that it would have been far more effective just to make more StuGw-44s.

Anyway, I digress. I'm interested in your take on the Patchett/Sterling SMG versus the Sten, they being of similar vintage.

Although the Sten and the Patchett/Sterling guns have the same operating principle they are as different as chalk and cheese. Whilst the stamped-out Sten was a clever product of dire emergency and quite adequate for the short-term purpose, The Patchett/Sterling guns were designed and built to last, and work a lot more reliably. The first thing is the magazine, the Sten having a troublesome single feed, double stack system in a flimsy housing that with a little use flopped around like a dick in a top hat, and the magazine side walls were susceptable to dents and dings which caused jams. The Sterling mags were designed with stepped side walls for strength and were curved to suit the slight taper on the cartridges. That coupled with the double feed, double stack system and the unique and friction-free roller follower made them the most reliable SMG magazine ever made. Other Patchett/Sterling features that led to them to being considered the 'Rolls Royce' of SMG's include the trigger mechanism machined from solid bar and properly heat-treated, a bolt that incorporated crud-scraping grooves, a sturdier body, improved stock and better ergonomics, better sights, stronger ejector, better magazine catch, etc, etc. Sterlings that were made in the 1950's are still going strong today, and they remained in production well into the 1980's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PmLxkOmaM

5.5 man hours to produce thats pretty impressive

Originally Posted by nowool

seems the biggest hurdle to overcome is getting approval to manufacture it in NZ. seems the fix is getting it made in china and having it submitted to the police for approval. design improved......cocking not only loads but resets the trigger and firing pin is floating. bolt is locked by sear during fire. firing pin is attached to a carrier ala UZI model B carbine. Heck! there's another idea!.........even simpler......a pump action UZI carbine! all you need to do is attach the bolt to the handguard which locks upon cocking and eliminate the recoil spring!

I maunfactured a semi auto sten and submitted it to the police several years ago. After 6 months it came back as a big no with the excuse "people will fit orig parts to make it an auto gun" even though it had been modified to prevent that. And that is the stock answer that police will always give on toys like this. They dont want them in the public domain.

with all the laws and the gun market i think a pump action sten would actually sell in NZ.. heck, you have 9mm bolt actions for 4 grand and .308 Enfield's for 4500! we could offer it as a kit personally my gun price in nz is 1500. nz outside that you are pissing away money based on overseas prices.