Ive been asked to make some for a mates bolt action garden gun
410 will probably just load up some 38-50 brass (aka) 38-303 with forming loads and just fire them off
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Ive been asked to make some for a mates bolt action garden gun
410 will probably just load up some 38-50 brass (aka) 38-303 with forming loads and just fire them off
A pet stoat?Quote:
Originally Posted by 300CALMAN
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is an awesome thread
Try gasket cork from an engineering outfit, it's more flexible and better for cutting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallfoot
I had a flatmate that was a bit of a weasel once.. but pet stoat? NopeQuote:
Originally Posted by MSL
whats the .410 in the stoat pic @Wingman
It's a Yildiz Silah Sanayi, one if the higher grade modern Turks, light framed but full size gun with nice dark high grade Turkish walnut and laser engraved nickel finishQuote:
Originally Posted by mikee
I'm in the market for something similar maybe. Would like a .410 or 28g but dont want the ali frame all the cheaper ones have @Wingman is the fram Ali or steel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
All steel. This one may be for sale in a couple of weeks if I manage to land the vintage s/s I'm chasingQuote:
Originally Posted by mikee
@Smallfoot all the .410s Ive used HATE #7 with a passion....#6 nearly as bad..#8 however is great...and a mixture of allsorts the best of all. havent seen a 1/2oz load of #4s that didnt pattern well...could be the 1/2oz loads are contained inside the wad,the 3/4 oz have 1/3 of payload infront of wad petals.
I shoot full choke in both barrels and run the Yanky custom tungsten stretch wads that hold a full 3/4oz within the wad, the trade off is the lack of wad cushioning so the lead pellets probably squash up and dont patern as well as what steel or toungsten would in the same wad.
I really only shoot #4 and #5 lead shot now as I like to shoot max range with the little .410 magnum.
My latest experiment with 1oz #5 shot loads and a felt wad in this brass are cranking out at 1100fps and patterning as good as the 3/4oz in the plastic wads. Noticeably more recoil but a lot more lead in the patern.
I was very impressed with the 11/16oz and 3/4oz hot loads I used this duck season and pulled out some really long shots on birds bugging out of the back side of the pond. The longest shots were easy 75 yds and it dropped them clean. I got a nice double when I took my boy out and jumped the pond one evening, one nice head and neck shot and the other in the rear as it was quartering away.. I was supprised to see how many pellets were on the bird at 75yds and how they all penetrated to the vitals.
Picked up a few bonus hares on the walk home too
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OK so I can't tell the difference between a Stoat and a Ferret, Weasels etc. If a Ferret is stinky and bites, a stoat can only be worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL
I cleared my trap line before school one morning, and there was the biggest nastiest blonde ferret I had ever seen, in an old lanes ace trap. I dare not club him like I would a possum, as I feared his foot would break off and he’d have me by the throat. So I ran back home and grabbed the Brno mod 5, and ran back to dispatch it. My older sister came along, as she was excited about the prospect of tanning a lovely ferret skin. After about 20 mins of dry retching while trying to skin it, she gave up and had to have a bath to get the stink off. My father thought it was hilarious, as he had suggested it wasn’t such a good idea. The stink was something else, and was hard to get rid of.
If you could got more stoats, and make a soft tippet, I can help you to sell it for at least 1k dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
@Wingman If you decide to sell it I may be interested depending on price, really looking for a sxs in 28ga but I dont have a 410 either :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
@Micky Duck
maaaaate ive just found this thread. What a following these guns have wow !
I've recently restored a 100+ year old .410 folding poachers gun. It is the lightweight model with the skeleton buttstock and half octagonal barrel. Ive been on the hunt for the side by side model of this gun for some time but still havent found one.
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The bore is good but the firing pin was missing so I made a new one and repared/refinished the stock.
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These guns were designed to fit under a trench coat and were availablein 2", 2.5", and 3" chambers. Unfortunatly this one is chambered in the now obsolete 2" which left me a couple of options. Rechamber it or make custom shells for it.
I carefully measured the chamber length and cut one of my 3" brass cases down to 2" to fit.
I also had a handfull of .444 marlin brass which fits perfect!
Attachment 213361
I spent days researching historic 2" .410 loads on the net and in old books but drew a blank on even starter loads. All I found was info from 1917 stating they used very light payloads with black powder. No mention of velocity but my guess is they were subsonic.
Historically the 2-inch .410-bore carried 3/10 ounce of shot, but later commercial cartridge makers such as Elley made 3/8 ounce in a 2" paper case.
That 3/8 ounce was also the original 2 1/2 inch paper case load.
I saw no reason not to try a 3/8oz load in my brass with H110 and a plastic wad with the petals cut back to suit.
Unfortunatly even after trying 3gr more than my 3" brass loads and a tight rammed nitro card I couldnt get them to propperly ignite. Just a small pop and the lead rolled out the bore with a lot of unburnt powder. Such a small amount of shot couldnt build enough pressure in the brass case loads with H110.
I decided to ditch the plastic wad for a couple of felt wads and up the lead load to a 1/2oz.
These worked a treat once I found the right load of H110 that gave me 1200fps and a nice tight patern with #5 shot.
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There is actually room for more pellets so I might just fill the case to capacity and change the charge to suit.
It doesnt quite have the reach and payload of my other 3" through the full chokes but it's a fun little lightweight gun. I have some #9 lead shot to try in it that will be great on the stoats and rats.
are you glueing in the over shot wad...... that will help add a bit of pressure.
No I'm not, the clear vinyl I'm using as the over shot card is about 2mm thick and slightly rubbery so is very tight to get in place and once seated is much more robust than glued in cardboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
A faster powder would have probably worked but it just made no sense to develop such a light load and then use up my precious pistol powders which are not replaceable at the moment.
The 2" case with felt wads can actually almost fit a 11/16 load so I'll likely just go that direction and forget about trying to use plastic wads in this one.
the win296 charge was/is the same for both the 1/2oz in 2 1/2 and 11/16th in 3" cases
the extra space is taken up by extra shot ....I have complete confidence you will work it out.
got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by GDMP
Yes the powder charge weight is the same in most .410 loads, my brass works the same but needs about 3gr more than the book says for plastic hulls due to brass volume and large pistol primers instead of the lively 209s. Win 296 is the same powder as H110.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I have even managed to work out a full 1oz load in the 3" brass.
Is there any sense in cramming a light 12g load into a 410 case?
It can't pattern as well as a 20g or 12g 1oz load the shot column must be 50mm or more long?
Let alone firing it a small light gun,
I would argue yes there is.. the biggest advantage is the nasty 4 letter word... LeadQuote:
Originally Posted by Peteforskeet
Youd be supprised what great patterns you can get from a 3/4oz or 1oz long column of #5 shot through a full choke at long ranges.
Recoil is a non event. No different to a 12ga trap load or 1oz 20g
I've just read this, great story , great work, pics etc.
I guess though, @Wingman, you'll be glad Micky didn't talk to you about the 800 nitro.
hmmmm...well lets see.it you have a long shot string,and you aim too far infront,you will still kill bird...for a rabbit/hare or possum it matters not a hoot. in fact its only on a true passing bird it makes much difference. it matters not a hoot if pellets arrive at target 1/4 second apart if they still hitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteforskeet
folks sing praises of 28ga and curse the .410.both fireing same payload at same speed.... its all about patterning,and thats done on a flat board so stringing doesnt come into it.
I figured i might add a bit to this thread, fun wee round to play with and something different for me.
cheers for putting this thread up to start with @Wingman it was a good excuse to get a sxs for the wife(mostly me now) to use.
Had some of this gear for a while so finally got some loads assembled. Made up a die to flare the mouth and the body but felt like the body die was over working the brass so just loaded some with both. the neck die expanding enough to get normal wads in, hoping to expand the brass better to the chamber upon firing, didn't really work so will re configure the die to expand the body better to reduce pressure and give more case capacity. But still got some good results with the neck expanded brass. I'll show a couple of pics of patterns at 30 yds and 1x at 20yds. The 30yds are full and half choke (III) 20yds half choke. Will re pattern once I have more brass tidied up, as the velocity dropped about 100fps ranged from 1070 fps down to 970fps with the near full expanded brass, I could have just fireformed the lot but with primers being a bit tricky I didn't want to use up many components. Attachment 214936Attachment 214937Attachment 214938
Another couple of pics showing the load, 2x cardboard over the powder compacted with a dowel, was nice tight fit, then 1/3rd of an ear plug to cusion the wad, this seems to have worked as there is no burning on the rear of wad in next pic. Wad then shot then another cardboard disk ( I used jeds coffee) then hot glue gun, which didn't seal too well after a week or so. Then decided to super glue the hot glue in (once dry obviously)Attachment 214942
Next pic 3x shells, left hand side has been formed wider with the die and 1x fired. Middle half formed with the neck die, unfired. Right formed with neck die and fired 1x. The wood if is sitting on was at the bottom of cardboard box which was used for patterns to stop it blowing away) its an offcut of rims and has penrtrated 3-5mm. The recovered wads are darkened inside and out not sure if this is normal? Attachment 214943
looking good... now play with some different shot sizes. it makes a HUGE difference to this wee cartridge.it will love one size and hate the next with no rhyme nor apparent reason for it.
now I would be sorely tempted to load that hotter and heavier..just because you can,the higher pressure will be captured by the brass case.
the blackening is normal on wads.... mix in/mix up different shot sizes together and surprise yourself at how well they kill. I do wonder if the earplug is doing a diservice??? by not allowing wad to expand..... probably not,but by same token no reason to not push payload deeper into case and stick it on top then glue in your top card.....perhaps worth a try.
Cheers for the advice. i Don't think the wad needs any cushioning as the base was clean and its just taking up more space. Bit funny reloading for this stuff as your not so much looking for pressure signs as you would in a rifle. once i have the brass in a better state (straighter) i will delve into some more loads but its looking promising so far, also have 3x other chokes to play with so should be interesting to see the difference. A old workmate recently asked me if i was after some shotgun reloading gear as he has inherited some which he isn't interested in using so might be a good time to play with some other sized shot. i haven't patterned any factory loads yet so that will also be a good comparison, ill make it happen just not sure how soon but ill keep the updates going. what do you think of the patterns? looks to me like it would be dead ducks, the 30yd Mid choke i shot high. obviously the string isn't as good as larger bores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
cheers
patterns are fine..I PREFER full chokes in the wee gun..and find load that suits it best. strangely enough all mine have not likes #6s as much as #4s ,#7 not much better,smaller again is great....
good stout load of #BBs is useful too.... but a mixture is really great and sure kills stuff dead.the wee gun with full choke is awesome for head snotting wounded ducks.... far more pleasant and effective than .12ga and steel #2 or #4
the bit to get head around...30 yards is a long shot for the .410 15-20 is ideal...possums up trees are just too easy as are bunnies in gorse pockets.
Haha yeah not trying to be a hero with a 30 yd+ shot. was just keen to see how it's all going and check velocity etc. Wouldn't mind taking it out for a rabbit/hare shoot. And like I say it's still early days and still a bit of work to do yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
if you want some smaller shot just let me know..actually if you need lead shot full stop,let me know....I will see you sorted,you looked after me with wooden plank,so no worries to return favour.
Well i know this was not directed at me but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Got any #11 shot????
#9 is as small as Ive got..and postage would be crippling.
not even sure where you would buy #11 shot size.
Much appreciated, i think i will have some more sorted via a friend but i will give you a bell if im struggling to find anything. I've got enough for a few more stocks if you feel the need for a new project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Cheers
@Wingman any plans for the .410 next season? Are you going to try and work up some steel or unicorn poop (tungsten) loads?
Nah strictly lead for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusl
Had the barrels running hot opening weekend, the 3/4 and 1oz loads have been killing well.
I also picked up a new .410 for evening strolls with the boy. It's a Turkish modern take on a 120 year old poachers gun design. 3" chambers and removable choke set but twin triggers and exposed hammers with a nice side latch.
I wasnt a fan of the stock design and it didnt close completely up on itself so I reshaped the stock to the petite english straight grip profile of the origional poachers gun and moved the fore end mount to clear the trigger gaurd and fold completely.
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Some pics of it along side an unmodified one:
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