"Room of stout construction"

Looking at converting a wardrobe and room in the shed into a room of stout construction for "A" category firearms.

Any body done it with ideas on the door and locks? Solid wood door with dead bolts and hinge pins but not sure about some anti pry protection. Both doors open outwards which makes it harder to have the anti pry protection.

Lining with 16mm ply inside room and wardrobe is pretty straight forward.

The latest guide for firearm storage seems to reference the room of stout construction in the with Endorsed firearms and there isn't a mention in the Hunting and shooting rifles section. Wondering if we would get away with a solid wood door without the the sheet metal covering?

Go to a kitchen factory and ask them to hoarde 'cover sheets' of 18mm MDF.

Should be a fraction of the price of ply mate, and plenty strong enough to stop an opportunistic thief or kid.

18mm MDF is bloody tough! Don't forget to line the ceiling as well. The lining needs to be screwed to the frame otherwise it can just be kicked free. The outward opening door is good but it needs two deadlocks about 400mm from the top and bottom. A 1.6mm steel sheet on the outside of the door, folded and screwed onto the edges is also preferable. I have built a couple of them over the years.

Was the steel sheet required if it was just for A cat firearms? Yes lining floor and ceiling to

Mdf is yuck. But gib over it and it looks perfect.
Or paint it.

Anyway, it is tough enough to satisfy the Stasi.

Anything stronger is a waste of time in my opinion, if the crims know what you have they will simply make you open it for them.

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Originally Posted by Mick Hunter

Was the steel sheet required if it was just for A cat firearms? Yes lining floor and ceiling to

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No steel required for A cat last time I checked.
It is only required to stop an opportunistic thief or a child obtaining access etc.

A mate made a Strongroom using ultra heavy mdf. He fitted sheets of flat tin sandwiched between the two panels. Concrete floor, double skinned plus tin including door with two deadlocks. Almost soundproof. I think his screechy wife may still be locked inside.

i have a smoke stop door on mine heavy as fuck solid rimu with a frosted glass panel with steel wire fused into it (lets in light but cant see in or smash thru.... i sold 2 more of them for $1 each on TM) the foundations of the building are poured concrete which come up around metre and a bit in height and 8 inches thick as are the wall cavities (give or take) steel bars over the windows in a manner that cant be levered off

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Originally Posted by Mick Hunter

Was the steel sheet required if it was just for A cat firearms? Yes lining floor and ceiling to

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No, not a legal requirement for A cat but inexpensive security.

An inward opening door is easier to pry and bash open- just bash a flat wreaking bar between frame and door and lean on it and a gap will gradually form, an outward opening just pushes door to the side edge unless one can get crow bar behind the door for leverage and has the whole door frame edge for bashing resistance . The weak point in an outward opening is the hinges. You can get security hinges with beefy unremovable pins and use two pairs instead of one pair, also mount a bit of flat steel at the ends of the hinges, inline, same protrusion as hinges.

A few thoughts.

Avoid getting burgled in the first place. No security is 100% but it also serves to slow down the burglar, they won't stay long if they have tripped a loud alarm, even if it is (probably?) unmonitored.

Two separate locks on the door separated by 1/3 of the door height is fair pry protection as a breaker would need to pry both points apart simultaneously.

A couple lever type deadlocks good, as pin tumblers are readily drilled or even picked with pick guns or bump keys -- not so with the older lever locks.

Latches, hinges, etc, throw out the 25mm long screws they often have and use 100mm long screws. It renders most inward opening doors unkickinnable.

And yes, pin and glue an MDF sheet to the face of the door. Cheap but sufficiently nasty.

Remember also, outward-opening doors have the advantage they are not readily kicked in, and they allow you to attach a "kick plate" that both covers the lock areas as well as preventing cutter access into the door/frame gap next to the locks.

Spot weld door hinge pins.

....and maybe keep your nicest guns in a secret, separate place.

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Originally Posted by scotty

i have a smoke stop door on mine heavy as fuck solid rimu with a frosted glass panel with steel wire fused into it (lets in light but cant see in or smash thru.... i sold 2 more of them for $1 each on TM) the foundations of the building are poured concrete which come up around metre and a bit in height and 8 inches thick as are the wall cavities (give or take) steel bars over the windows in a manner that cant be levered off

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That steel mesh prevents the glass splintering and falling in/out in a hot fire. It does not provide much extra security apart from burglars having to smash each area of the window separately to get a large enough opening. You could glue on clear plastic film on the inside of it though.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

That steel mesh prevents the glass splintering and falling in/out in a hot fire. It does not provide much extra security apart from burglars having to smash each area of the window separately to get a large enough opening. You could glue on clear plastic film on the inside of it though.

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the mesh is 1/2 inch squares..... so alot of smashing required to make a hole big enuff for some fat burgling bastard

Again, all the security in the world is useless if the crims know what you have. Don't advertise the fact, even on this forum.

Keep it simple. Keep it secret.

I wont say my final suggestion publicly. Friends and otherwise proven forum types can PM me if you really want to know.

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Originally Posted by 40mm

Again, all the security in the world is useless if the crims know what you have. Don't advertise the fact, even on this forum.

Keep it simple. Keep it secret.

I wont say my final suggestion publicly. Friends and otherwise proven forum types can PM me if you really want to know.

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All the security in the world is no defense against coercive theft. CF semi owners out there have experieNZed this..

just remember @gundoc had a whole safe ripped out with a hiab or such years ago. This is the case of that they very likely knew him and his trade and what he dealt and worked with.
did everything right but unlike some of us, hard to hide what he might have had in his possession.
If you are reading this mate, did they ever get anyone for this?

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

just remember @gundoc had a whole safe ripped out with a hiab or such years ago. This is the case of that they very likely knew him and his trade and what he dealt and worked with.
did everything right but unlike some of us, hard to hide what he might have had in his possession.
If you are reading this mate, did they ever get anyone for this?

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They cut all the security bars out of the front of my shop (professional job) and got away with a custom built (just finished that day) .358 Norma Magnum built on a P14 with a NZ walnut stock and an octagonal barrel with an integral full length rib, A custom walnut stocked FN FAL that was engraved and a high polish blue, a .22 Hornet built on a small Martini, and a couple .22's (destroying the steel rack in the process). They also got about 12 guns from the workshop rack that were being worked on, all with parts missing (on my bench) and inoperable. They never got into my strongroom which had over 100 handguns and restricted weapons in it. The alarm company had a patrol there within 4 minutes of the alarm going off but no one was there. Insurance was piss all use and the deal cost me just over 20 Grand. The FAL was recovered by me about 5 years later from a chopper operator on the West Coast who had been given it in exchange for a hunting trip. No one was ever caught and frankly, I don't think the Police looked very hard. The lesson to me was to put future steel security bars behind the glass so the alarm goes off as soon as the glass breaks. They never opened the door but just smashed all the glass out in the aluminium frame. The Police reckoned there were 4-6 people involved. I would love that custom .358 to turn up as the customer would be a very happy man. I put a lot of hours into it and was very pleased with the result.

I like the post but really only because of the 358. The rest is just awful

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Originally Posted by scotty

the mesh is 1/2 inch squares..... so alot of smashing required to make a hole big enuff for some fat burgling bastard

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I predict that eventually the police will decree that we must have a steel safe to store firearms in.
So whilst a strong room is a cool idea, you are gonna need a safe too

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Originally Posted by gundoc

They cut all the security bars out of the front of my shop (professional job) and got away with a custom built (just finished that day) .358 Norma Magnum built on a P14 with a NZ walnut stock and an octagonal barrel with an integral full length rib, A custom walnut stocked FN FAL that was engraved and a high polish blue, a .22 Hornet built on a small Martini, and a couple .22's (destroying the steel rack in the process). They also got about 12 guns from the workshop rack that were being worked on, all with parts missing (on my bench) and inoperable. They never got into my strongroom which had over 100 handguns and restricted weapons in it. The alarm company had a patrol there within 4 minutes of the alarm going off but no one was there. Insurance was piss all use and the deal cost me just over 20 Grand. The FAL was recovered by me about 5 years later from a chopper operator on the West Coast who had been given it in exchange for a hunting trip. No one was ever caught and frankly, I don't think the Police looked very hard. The lesson to me was to put future steel security bars behind the glass so the alarm goes off as soon as the glass breaks. They never opened the door but just smashed all the glass out in the aluminium frame. The Police reckoned there were 4-6 people involved. I would love that custom .358 to turn up as the customer would be a very happy man. I put a lot of hours into it and was very pleased with the result.

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Aaargh!!! :pissed off:

I've seen it done with heavy ply over steel reinforcing mesh up against the wall, the whole lot screwed in with bugles/purlin screws at 200 spacing

I predict that eventually the police will decree that we must have a steel safe to store firearms in.
So whilst a strong room is a cool idea, eventually you are gonna need a safe too

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Originally Posted by 308

I've seen it done with heavy ply over steel reinforcing mesh up against the wall, the whole lot screwed in with bugles/purlin screws at 200 spacing

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Gun nails are the way to go, bugles or other screws are not only expensive, but will give your drill or impact driver a real hard work out with that number of fixings.

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Originally Posted by 40mm

Gun nails are the way to go, bugles or other screws are not only expensive, but will give your drill or impact driver a real hard work out with that number of fixings.

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Just get a Dewalt (Milwaukee/Makita etc but fuck Ryobi)
then burr the heads out so they can't be undone
and don't pay Bunnings prices for tekscrews/bugles - trade places do them much cheaper

Gun nails are cheaper but do you want a strong room or not?

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Originally Posted by 308

Just get a Dewalt (Milwaukee/Makita etc but fuck Ryobi)
then burr the heads out so they can't be undone
and don't pay Bunnings prices for tekscrews/bugles - trade places do them much cheaper

Gun nails are cheaper but do you want a strong room or not?

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I hear you, screws are for sure much harder to pull out.
But with the amount of nails per sheet, it would be a very determined thief with a LOT of time on his hands to get the wall apart.
Even galv nails or ring shank if you really need to make it harder.

If you drive gun nails at an angle to the faces of the sheets then the force required to pull them apart again is similar to screwed construction (unless you remove most of the nails. I use a hell of a lot of bugle screws (I buy 100x14's by 10's of thousand for fencing) the and I wouldn't bother using them to set the panels for a strong room.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Aaargh!!! :pissed off:

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@gundoc although your incident was probably a professional/organised job it's amazing how well bars deter opportunists. I lived next to a dairy in Rotorua and it had the window smashed out about once a year until they put bars inside window. After that it never happened again.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

18mm MDF is bloody tough! Don't forget to line the ceiling as well. The lining needs to be screwed to the frame otherwise it can just be kicked free. The outward opening door is good but it needs two deadlocks about 400mm from the top and bottom. A 1.6mm steel sheet on the outside of the door, folded and screwed onto the edges is also preferable. I have built a couple of them over the years.

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I did one in our last place. I used two layers of MDF and got nasty......The first layer was screwed to the studs AND dwangs, and the secod layer was glued on over those scres and bolted through with coach bolts and I put a pin in each of the bolts after the nut so it would spin before undoing if they got the coach head to move....It looked like the coach screws held it on but they were simply there to frustrate anyone who bothered to undo them. I then mounted heaps of shelves to the outside of them to further frustrate anyone trying to access via the wall. Then the door was located between two steel 100x50 studs and opened inwards so if they tried to kick it in the locks would have to pass through the door as the Jam / frame would not give.

..I also put 15mm holes in the studs and threaded 12mm reinforcing bar through them. The bars would spin if someone tried to saw through the wall. Parallel to that were the power cables fr the 3 pin sockets (fans and tools etc inside the room) and lights. These were "protected by the steel rio bars so they would not get cut, but if said crim accidentally cut one while trying to break in, it would have been unfortunate.....

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

And gib/paint over the top of all the ply etc on the walls, cursory glance and it just looks like another internal wall...

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Yep, any obviously armoured door is like a candle to a burglarmoth.