Aftermarket R93 and R8 Barrels – Major Safety Concerns

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Originally Posted by L.R

You just said in your post above that hardness was the problem. The material used has a very high tensile strength to it was chosen after an analysis of a R8 barrel.

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It was stated prior it was too soft and you said it was the same...??
Hardness, tensile and yield as materials basic properties are not linear or uniform across different materials ie increase one and rest go up too at the same proportion.

You obviously know a lot more about it all... How was the receiver tested.... Chopped up and sent away to a lab for core analysis or?? I can't see how you could possibly find the info required to make a material decision using non destructive testing methods, and I'm not aware of anywhere in NZ or Oz that can do a full analysis, we've always has to use Singapore or Norway
With that info available it can be pretty easy to put to bed assumptions on materials etc

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Originally Posted by Stager Sport

The chamber expansion was so great that the owner showed this by inserting a cartridge into the chamber backwards for three quarters of its length.

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Given that the material is of the 'same strength' and a cartridge goes in backwards does this not point to a chambering problem? Dont know , havent had anything to do with the caliber and not sure of the cartridge dimensions . but its something i would be looking at

No. It is possible to stretch the chamber as it is only built from 416 ss barrel steel. What I have learnt from playing with aftermarket receivers is that .308 boltface cartrages seem to be about the max diameter you can get away with without extraction problems.
Stager is correct in saying that you cannot transfer the chamber wall forces through the barrel threads and into the receiver, it dosent matter how tight the threads are, I have even had some ground to super tight tolerances.

Sometimes you may get away with going to a mag case if everything works in your favour, like hard brass and using a 4140 barrel not stainless. You have to remember that there is only about 2.5-3mm of chamber wall thickness to the root of the thread. What this means is that you can strech the chamber if you put to much pressure in it. I don't believe this causes a risk of the bolt lock coming undone all it does is make extraction almost impossible.

The same thing happens all the time on conventional bolt actions when you try to use a large diameter case in a action with a marginal Tennon size. All that happens is hard or impossible extraction it doesn't pose a risk of shearing off the bolt lugs.

Yes it is true that these Blaser aftermarket barrels with mag chamberings will be closer to the limit than a standard blaser barrel, however if the person who owns it is sensible like any reloader needs to be, then I don't believe they are dangerous.

Tussock I don't think anybody is saying that what Stager is saying happened didn't. It's just a matter of what caused it. I think that's what people are asking for, more information.

As we know there are all sorts of commercial wars going on, and we just want evidence that this is not another one.

Also I'd like to point out for a second time that I have nothing to do with this aftermarket barrel and I am only guessing who the two parties involved are.

This is a shit thread. It will only become worse and end up with someone getting sin binned or worse.
I suggest it is locked and only opened again once there is some tangible evidence. Until then, the OP is probably left as it stands, a warning, not an open discussion as to which quorum has the high ground.

Maybe New Zealand should introduce proofing for any firearm re barrel. A qualification for gun smiths might be a good idea as well, with a practical and theory registration exam.

Maybe we should register boats, licence boat drivers, introduce noise pollution levels, ban lead from hunting projectiles, ban lead for shotguns, pay girls to get pregnant, give compensation to criminals hurt during their occupational activities, pay for drunken yobs misadventures when the injure themselves, reduce the speed limit to 10mph....

anybody else want a turn?

We've done most of those already...

Yeah I know, but they are all such great ideas

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Maybe we should register boats, licence boat drivers, introduce noise pollution levels, ban lead from hunting projectiles, ban lead for shotguns, pay girls to get pregnant, give compensation to criminals hurt during their occupational activities, pay for drunken yobs misadventures when the injure themselves, reduce the speed limit to 10mph....

anybody else want a turn?

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True, but most of those things you listed don't have 60k+ PSI 100mm from your head.

I have not issues in requiring a gunsmith to be qualified to do the job.
After all you need to do a course and pass a test to drive, most jobs require a qual, you have to pass a test etc to possess a firearm but you can make and modify with nothing ?!?

Technically a dealers license is required for manufacture and an action has to be sent to the police with blueprints etc for inspection and approval to manufacture along with other requirements

That is required with actions, not barrels.

Gunsmiths scrap commercial actions every day in this country because of expansion... I assume those actions were all checked and proofed.

Stagers have no incentive apart from safety in this issue?

Where are the people who have been injured as a result of all these shonky gunsmiths?

The whole... we have a problem, we must regulate attitude sucks...

People who acquired these barrels are not inexperienced, people who design and develop wildcat cartridges can identify expansion issues and catastrophic failure without warning signs are unlikely.

This is a niche area, a niche issue and we get... we must regulate....

In this country over the last few years, we have had a significant development in knowledge and understanding of cartridge and rifles particularly in the long range area that may never have occurred had everyone been qualified, and every design proofed before experimentation could occur.

Thats the last thing we need....

Have you seen the differences between a Blazer and say a Rem?

I wouldn't own a remington

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Originally Posted by Sidney

That is required with actions, not barrels.

Gunsmiths scrap commercial actions every day in this country because of expansion... I assume those actions were all checked and proofed.

Stagers have no incentive apart from safety in this issue?

Where are the people who have been injured as a result of all these shonky gunsmiths?

The whole... we have a problem, we must regulate attitude sucks...

People who acquired these barrels are not inexperienced, people who design and develop wildcat cartridges can identify expansion issues and catastrophic failure without warning signs are unlikely.

This is a niche area, a niche issue and we get... we must regulate....

In this country over the last few years, we have had a significant development in knowledge and understanding of cartridge and rifles particularly in the long range area that may never have occurred had everyone been qualified, and every design proofed before experimentation could occur.

Thats the last thing we need....

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99% of so called gunsmiths in the world come from either the military as qualified armourers (of differing standards) or a fitter turner/engineering background.
When I completed my apprenticeship as an armourer I was offered a pretty gunsmiths cetificate from the UK.........for a fee. I am a qualified armourer, not a gunsmith. However I could set up shop without batting an eyelid or facing any regulation because in NZ I a deemed qualified as a smith.

Apart from skilled woodwork, fine engraving and in depth small arms theory, there is not much else to gunsmithing that a fitter-turner is not qualified to do, imo.
Military armourers sometimes get a bad wrap from lesser qualified people yet the 2 police armourers are ex military and they are trusted and expected to give evidence that can convict criminals.

If regulation was required for small arms repair in NZ who is qualified to oversee/govern it and would it really do anymore to prevent damage or injury?

In my current job they almost regulate the colour of your urine:D

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Originally Posted by Sidney

I wouldn't own a remington

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I would maybe utilize an action.

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Originally Posted by Spanners

Have you seen the differences between a Blazer and say a Rem?

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Blazer is a casual men's jacket ?

And autocorrect is a bitch

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Originally Posted by Sidney

I wouldn't own a remington

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I would own a Remington 700 over a blaser any day.
I have seen the state of a Remington action in 7-08 after shooting a full load of pistol powder. The action was blocked , the extractor and ejector disappeared and the bolt nose was flattened but it held!!! The gunsmisth had to mill a slot over the side of the receiver to be able to remove the barrel.

I'd own a Blaser over a Rem any day. I own both. The Rem is a cunt of a thing to get to anywhere near what the Blaser is off the shelf.

Oh and the Blaser action will hold anything a 2 lug Rem700 ever will.

I have owned remingtons so I am allowed to not like them...

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

I'd own a Blaser over a Rem any day. I own both. The Rem is a cunt of a thing to get to anywhere near what the Blaser is off the shelf.

Oh and the Blaser action will hold anything a 2 lug Rem700 ever will.

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Thanks for that, the funniest thing I have read in years :D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Thanks for that, the funniest thing I have read in years :D:D:D

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So your business is a load of snake oil then Greg? Cause if it really was funny, an off the shelf Rem would not have 400 billion optional aftermarket parts.

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

So your business is a load of snake oil then Greg? Cause if it really was funny, an off the shelf Rem would not have 400 billion optional aftermarket parts.

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At least the 400 billion aftermarket Remington parts are affordable, and available from almost any "chemist". I own neither brand by the way.

I did look at an F3 but decided it would make no difference to my shooting. 2 of my mates use em but I don't like either of them and would rather have a Browning or Beretta and keep the change. Not to mention I could buy aftermarket bit from more than a single supplier/importer.

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Originally Posted by mikee

At least the 400 billion aftermarket Remington parts are affordable, and available from almost any "chemist". I own neither brand by the way.

I did look at an F3 but decided it would make no difference to my shooting. 2 of my mates use em but I don't like either of them and would rather have a Browning or Beretta and keep the change. Not to mention I could buy aftermarket bit from more than a single supplier/importer.

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For more than 1 caliber option the R93 platform becomes pretty affordable actually. There are more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to supplier options too. I stopped buying from the local agent years ago.
The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap?
The only Blaser aftermarket parts I know of (other than accessories) are the Bix n Andy triggers. Kind of says something?
Kinda getting well off topic though.

I knew this was a shit thread from the get go.

FYI Id shoot no better with an F3 too, a Baikel would still be too good for me when it comes to smooth bores!

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap?

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The original post read like a "Sales Pitch" more than a "Safety Notice"

I have been to and lived in USSR for 7 months. Lada's are bloody good cars they were the only one's that survived.

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

For more than 1 caliber option the R93 platform becomes pretty affordable actually. There are more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to supplier options too. I stopped buying from the local agent years ago.
The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap?
The only Blaser aftermarket parts I know of (other than accessories) are the Bix n Andy triggers. Kind of says something?
Kinda getting well off topic though.

I knew this was a shit thread from the get go.

FYI Id shoot no better with an F3 too, a Baikel would still be too good for me when it comes to smooth bores!

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I agree this thread kind of seems like a beat up from the start .
I will put all of my cards on the table .
I got my firearms license in the mid 1980's , in that time I have owned numerous brands and different calibers , you name it , I've probably owned it .
Now in 2013 I have sold off most of my meager collection of firearms and own a shotgun a F3 Sporter , a centerfire R93 7mm Rem Mag - .223 Rem , rimfire Walther and Anschutz .
Why have I whittled it down to just a handful of options ?
Because what I own now works with the minimum of fuss and bother , without having to send things to gunsmiths and without the unknown "what if's " of home improvement .
My firearms work , and they work the way the factory made them to work , they work the way that experts of the firearm industry designed them to work , not the way that marketing gurus think it works , not the way the factory wished and hoped they would work , one day in a make believe Never Never Land .
In my line of work I own many tools and different types of equipment .
My firearms requirements are no different .
They must do their job without excuses .
It's why I own Snap-On sockets and Sid-Chrome screw drivers .

Ken

I'd own a Blaser if there was an option for detach mags that wasn't the worst in existence

Its not that bad... haven't heard of anybody who has lost one... the trigger is still excellent, and to be honest I actually prefer taking the trigger and mag away from the rifle and leaving the bolt in it when making safe or storing. The fire control/bolt assembly has slide rails that extend from the body and in my view are considerably less robust that the equivalent bolt in a conventional rifle. It is preferable to leave it in the rifle, hence the detach trigger/mag isn't a bad idea.

To remove the trigger mag both sides have to be squeezed at the same time, making accident loss unlikely unless not properly inserted in the first place...

You can get a whole replacement unit easily enough and while dearer than most mags, bit over $400... not completely out of the question to have a spare carried as a quick mag change anyway...

$462 US for a second mag. I'm not worried about losing it, I just Don't Like It.

Cant help you with that

Well this is all looks very clumsy really.

Oh what happens when you are away hunting for the week......................

As you all might have click to what this is all about I can only say little due to me involving a lawyer.

*Yes it is one of MY receivers

*Yes I did the fit up of a barrel SUPPLIED

*The barrel in question has had more then ONE shot................

*The barrel in question IS NOT my 7mm Gonzo chamber (7mm-300 Blazer with shoulder pushed forward an 40 degree shoulder) it IS another 7mm-300 Blazer chamber that I had no part in the design an spec

*It IS NOT a headspace issue (spanners) WAS spaced 2thou on the supplied GO gauge

*The Receivers on both the R93 an R8 HAVE been pressure tested

*Stager sports had refused to email back after they raised concerns in a email 2 weeks ago, when I said I was happy to supply the information UPON THEM signing a confidentiality agreement, to no reply

*These receivers are not a overnight hair brain idea.....A lot of time an testing has gone into them with user safety taken as number one like any other job.

Happy to answer questions on here or any other method within reason due to taking the matter further some will not be answered
I have nothing to hide or intend on hiding in this matter.

I is on the other hand quite funny reading through an seen the same people on the band wagon that just happen to know not a thing about these...................

Abe

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Originally Posted by tui_man2

Oh what happens when you are away hunting for the week......................

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It's always the worst part of coming back to the real world after hunting ah? My phone went mad with work emails & messages as soon as reception kicked in....

Still, worth it for a week in the hills hunting Tahr & the odd coon...


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

Always 2 sides to every story, hope it gets all sorted soon Abe.

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Cant help you with that

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I understand why it is the design that it is, and why it has to be. I just don't like the multipiece plastic mag, the cost of additional, and removing the trigger unit with the mag. I can't think of a mag system I like less, hence, worst in the world.

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Originally Posted by The Claw

It's always the worst part of coming back to the real world after hunting ah? My phone went mad with work emails & messages as soon as reception kicked in....

Still, worth it for a week in the hills hunting Tahr & the odd coon...


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

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You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?

A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.

I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.

As a further note if you are looking at genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote

Abe

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by username

You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?

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We had a good time in the hills but no monsters where harmed on this trip

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by tui_man2

A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.

I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.

As a further note if you are looking at genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote

Abe

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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You cant complain about service like that.

Well done standing by your work, both morally and financially, a trait that is generally lacking in NZ.