A Blast From the Past. Firearms Licensing Old Style.

Greetings All,
My dearly beloved had been tidying up somewhere and found three of the old Firearms Test Certificates from the late 1970's and 1980,s. These used to be issued by Mountain Safety Council Firearms Safety Instructors to prospective firearms owners after an evenings instruction and a test. One was for my son dated from when he was 8 years old. He had come with me one test night sat through the instruction with his ears flapping. As I was handing out the test papers I gave him one as well and in spite of no prep he passed and was duly issued his certificate signed by one of the other instructors. He did the test again closer to when he could get his license, same result, and had his license issued by his 16th Birthday. I think it took about 3 days. It was a simpler time.
Regards Grandpamac.

Yup... nothing like the "good ol' days" to remind us how simpler life used to be. I still have my original little red Firearms License book stashed away in the attic from about 1982/83. Unfortunately I don't appear to have a copy of my "Lifetime" license which lasted for only a few years before suddenly becoming "nothing like a lifetime" license. Fast forward 37 years and and we have layer upon layer of checks and balances with an application form just short of being a novel... and I feel no safer than I did 37 years ago when everyone - certainly just about every farmer in the country - had a rifle lazing around in the back of their wardrobe or under the bed.

I had a similar experience, with my wife, when I was instructing. She knew nothing about firearms, but listened intently, and passed with a 100% result. Often young men failed the test, while nearly every woman passed. My theory was that the young guys "knew it all", therefore didn't have to listen, and failed; while woman listen, process the information, and pass.

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Originally Posted by Ranger 888

I had a similar experience, with my wife, when I was instructing. She knew nothing about firearms, but listened intently, and passed with a 100% result. Often young men failed the test, while nearly every woman passed. My theory was that the young guys "knew it all", therefore didn't have to listen, and failed; while woman listen, process the information, and pass.

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It's often been my experience with regard to female shooters too and for the very reasons you mentioned.

I used to have a permit to shoot from the road onto private property, and road berms, we used to shoot in the town inside city limits in Alex too just using common sense.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
My dearly beloved had been tidying up somewhere and found three of the old Firearms Test Certificates from the late 1970's and 1980,s. These used to be issued by Mountain Safety Council Firearms Safety Instructors to prospective firearms owners after an evenings instruction and a test. One was for my son dated from when he was 8 years old. He had come with me one test night sat through the instruction with his ears flapping. As I was handing out the test papers I gave him one as well and in spite of no prep he passed and was duly issued his certificate signed by one of the other instructors. He did the test again closer to when he could get his license, same result, and had his license issued by his 16th Birthday. I think it took about 3 days. It was a simpler time.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Here ya go
Attachment 160504
Attachment 160505

Same era I remember getting on the Arthurs Pass railcar at Christchurch Railway station with my pack and a 303. It was ski season and it was packed. No-one even blinked an eye!
Imagine that now........if youcan

I remember my dads licence was a folded one and it was red in the outside ?

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Originally Posted by Bos

Here ya go
Attachment 160504
Attachment 160505

Same era I remember getting on the Arthurs Pass railcar at Christchurch Railway station with my pack and a 303. It was ski season and it was packed. No-one even blinked an eye!
Imagine that now........if youcan

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Still got my original Certificates Of Rego somewhere, the wife will know where. First one cost me the old currency (right on the changeover in 1967). Still got that rifle.

Re Railway travel - one of our old rifle club members was in his young days in the Navy in Auckland. The Navy used to put him, carrying his rifle on the train to Trentham to attend the Fullbore Nationals at the Trentham Rifle Ranges. I think it was the overnighter and I am not sure if the 303 was in a canvass bag or not.

Even Australia where they seem to be trying to out do us & the UK for bureaucratic stupidity, were known for some common sense /real life experience application of rules not long ago .Back in the 80's when l got my first taste of guiding & was working in the remote Top End whenever l could, as l gained experience /reputation to get full time work guiding .

So l could support me & the missus in remote areas even while the guiding work slowed down during the "Wet"or monsoon season ,l went & did my Professional Helicopter Shooters qualification course,then held just outside a little country town about a 1 1/2 hours out of Darwin.After passing that me & 3 others who passed the course went to the little 2 man cop shop with the Instructor & paper work in hand .The cops & the Instructor were both locals & old mates ,l was the only one actually living/ working in a remote area so the instructor got me to wait while the other blokes were finished & went outside & he explained to the old copper how l was working as a guide,living remote etc & got the copper to agree to ticking the box giving me a carry licence for a Handgun as well .

A couple of years later l was working basically year round guiding ,chopper shooting & catching scrub bulls for a Aboriginal Corp,trying to make ends meet during the off season during the "Wet",to get to know the locals & gain trust to be given access to traditional lands/sacred sites etc .This meant l would at times be driving a 2 trailer cattle truck 100's of miles across rough dirt tracks, as well as Bull Catchers,trail bikes & Quads etc all while never having a truck licence, as we were in the middle of now where & would rarely ,apart from Aboriginal locals, ever see any one else . One day we were stuck at camp as a early wet season storm had came through & the cops from the nearest town ,(probably 300 miles away by road), flew in with the mail plane which they did once in a blue moon to check on all the road vehicles rego etc ,no one was on the most wanted list hiding out & no sly grogging to the locals was going on .

The camp boss asked him about getting us licences for the trucks etc while he was there,he told me to hop in the old Bedford tray truck & take him for a spin up & down the air strip the old girl had hardly any clutch left from towing other vehicles out of bogs etc so you had to tickle through the gear & after we did a 10 minute drive & rocked up back at camp he promptly pulled a pad from his brief case & l thought would just give us a licence for the small tray truck, instead after checking with the boss what l had been up to he gave me a full Road Train Licence with the added livestock accreditation ,he then also gave me a bike licence with out even asking .

If any of them were caught doing it now we would all be thrown into the clanger for years .:thumbsup:

Do we have more safety or less common sense and more bureaucracy?

Not that many years ago, I saw 2 young fellas sitting on their packs in the ChCh airport departure lounge with rifles beside them. Got on the plane and put their gear in the OH locker.
No worries mate.

My training was clips across the ear from grownups if I waved an "empty" single shot 22 around.
Soon learned to be aware of where the thing was pointed.

Guns ARE NOT DANGEROUS.
People are and the most dangerous of all are the omnipotent moral busybodies who feel entitled to force everyone else to do what they say.

Perhaps it is not a coincidence that so many of these busybodies end up as politicians and government (our) employees?

Guns are tools and using them, like using other tools, requires, training, practice and experience.

The people with the the practice and experience are the ones who can and should be doing the training and those without should mind their own business.

Of course, some sensible and consistent rules and regulations are necessary for the common good but the most important ought to be don't mess with other people that are not messing with you.

IMO, the range officers at our local gun clubs might be the people best qualified to train and certify safe, fit and proper, users of firearms.

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Originally Posted by Survy

I remember my dads licence was a folded one and it was red in the outside ?

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Sounds like the original "lifetime" license from the mid 80's when the police decided to change it from a permit system.
The family bought the farm in the 70's when I was a kid, it came with 2 rifles left in the house, a savage .22 (still have it) and a .303 :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by zimmer

Still got my original Certificates Of Rego somewhere, the wife will know where. First one cost me the old currency (right on the changeover in 1967). Still got that rifle.

Re Railway travel - one of our old rifle club members was in his young days in the Navy in Auckland. The Navy used to put him, carrying his rifle on the train to Trentham to attend the Fullbore Nationals at the Trentham Rifle Ranges. I think it was the overnighter and I am not sure if the 303 was in a canvass bag or not.

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From what I have heard over the years it was common for shooters to travel to Trentham to shoot for the Belt via train in the Defence rifle club days. if I recall correctly the travel was subsidised by the Army, as was the accommodation, food & ammunition.

Back in the 60s I used to get a Permit to Procure to borrow Dads 222 Vixen, permit was good for 28 days.

It's just a pity that we live in a world full of crime and corruption these days.

The war on drugs declared by the good old boy reagan really stuck one up everyone's ass, made drugs more valuable, so in turn came crim's that needed that AK47 for protection.

I remember the stories when I was hunting with my Granda in Ireland, but we don't live in that world anymore.
I like a good rant as much as the next man, but considering most of the 'old brigade' can't navigate in Mozilla Firefox without looking for a fox on fire.......well.

There are many more Idiots these days, no morals, no values and no respect, so yeah I like the stories, but someone sitting on the bus with a Tippmann .22 won't end well these days.


anyway.

Correct me if wrong but I seem to remember in the late 60s and poss early 70s we did not need a firearms licence at all - just a Permit to Procure a firearm. Went to the copshop, got your permit, then off to the local gunshop. Very quick, very easy. Those were the days when cars and 4wds would go past with rifles in a rack in the back window while the famer/hunter was in town.

Oddly enough there were very few firearms problems back then...... Very few murders, not so much crime at all actually :)

Mate of mine loaned a rifle to his friend who had been in Aussie for years, he knew the guy had a FAL from before he went to Aussie so never thought to ask to see it...anyway the guy shot a deer in the bush and it jumped into a cockies paddock (yeah yeah I know maybe bullshit) where he finished it off, while gutting it the cocky turned up and said the police were on their way, guy hung around for cop and duly showed his license, turned out to be one of the 'lifetime' ones, he never knew there had been a change while he was in Aussie. Went up before the judge and told his story, judge believed him and told police to hand back rifle to owner (my mate) and told police to sort a new license for the guy.
That rifle ended up being stolen years later by owners son who had joined a gang and rifle was used in an armed holdup, when it came to court it was found that the rifle had disappeared from police custody and that part was stricken from the case...if you ever come across a cop using a Browning BLR in .358 ask him how he came by it.

1980 Heading from Ak to Rotorua via intercity bus, Pack and rifle never made it onto the bus. Rotorua straight to the Police station, High Powered Rifle sighted in with 40 rounds, ready to rock. No major concern from the Cops, received the whole package at Kaingaroa a week later. So that had been on the foot path for 4 hrs at the AK bus Station. Different times

Back in mid seventies while waiting for the bus I walked up and down main drag of Dunedin for four (?) hours with my faithful Finnwolf slung over my shoulder.

Nobody batted an eye lid, no AOS materialized.

Changed days…

All aboard.Back in the early eighties before mad dog Prebble 'Saved' NZR along with his mate Roger Douglas, a man could buy a "Weekend Trampers Ticket" for the Friday evening train from Moorhouse Ave Chch to Grey (I think they now call it the Tranz Alpine or some other fancy name).Drop off point with prior arrangement was the unscheduled Mt White Bridge halt where there is no siding or platform or lighting.You would jump 7 foot off the stationary carriage with pack n rifle onto the ballast in the dark.Rark up the Waimak or Poulter deer over the w/end then picked up in the dark same spot on Sunday nite.Paid to jog the guardsman's memory to be expecting you on the Sunday nite.
So this particular Sunday nite I,m standing on the side of the rail & flick my torch briefly at the approaching Chch bound loco driver to stop which I didnt need to do as he was already slowing down for me as arranged.The engine & whole rake of passenger carriages slowly pass me without the train really stopping until its only the final guardsman van opposite me.The guardsman jumps down onto the track next to me and he's waving his signal lantern frantically ahead to the still moving Loco driver who by now is entering the first sweeping bend & can no longer see rearward the guard.I thought WTF & on the trot hurridly toss my three naught three & pack up into the floor of the vacant van just as the driver opens the throttles of the diesel electric.I heaved myself up just like in the John Wayne movies as we speed away from the poor forlawn guard with his lantern dangling limply from his hand in the dark.This of course well b4 the days of cell phones.Just like Sparky I thought I've got to stop the train cause we're all merrily on our way now to Moorhouse Ave.I look for the emergency brake cord but no, NZR dont have them in guardsvans.So then I tried to enter the rake of carriages, but the guard has locked the interconnecting door cause the van is carrying Her Majesties mail, & the key is in his greatcoat pocket.So me and the guard are well fucked by now.Poor old matey starts trudging east along the line for 3 miles to the gangers house at Cass.Knocks on the door & explains the situation.Ganger rings thru to Moorhouse Ave.They signal the guardless Chch bound train to stop at Springfield Stn after exiting the Waimak Gorge.Meanwhile the ganger & the guard jump on a jigger and head off down the gorge line 20 miles to catch up with us waiting 2 hours @ Springfield.Theres some mighty pissed people on the train by now cause they've missed inter connecting buses, flights ,taxis etc and we finally arrive in Chch about 2.00am. Needless to say I dont think the Tranz Alpine do the Mt White Trampers Special anymore- it wouldn't pass muster with the Health & Safety clipboard types these days

:D:D Great yarn - old Crumpy would have liked that one...

I don't think it's all doom and gloom, whilst the good old days are certainly well behind us more often than that I get more positive reactions and interested small talk when I walk out of the bush at wairere falls than I do fearful looks and a hurried pace.

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Originally Posted by mudgripz

:D:D Great yarn - old Crumpy would have liked that one...

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@mudgrips yeah nar but unlike a Crumpy tale this one is fair dinkum.Mad dog & Sir Roger have gone,NZR has gone,Guardsmen in their issue black woolen greatcoats their signal lanterns & their vans have gone,my smelly three naught three has gone,the Cass railway settlement with it's Briggs & Stratton jigger have gone, Addington Workshops & Moorhouse Ave Stn have long gone,Tranzrail no longer offer the Arthur's Pass tramper's weekend fare, and they don't even play cowboy and Indian movies featuring The Duke on the telly anymore!Progress

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Originally Posted by bluebaiter222

All aboard.Back in the early eighties before mad dog Prebble 'Saved' NZR along with his mate Roger Douglas, a man could buy a "Weekend Trampers Ticket" for the Friday evening train from Moorhouse Ave Chch to Grey (I think they now call it the Tranz Alpine or some other fancy name).....

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That's outstanding. A younger, more innocent New Zealand when respect was earned through deeds done and commonsense was a necessary life skill.

late 1960s..hopped on a bus in the Auckland suburbs, pack on back and .303 over my shoulder (no bag), into Auckland City on a Friday evening, walked down Queen St, passed 2 cops who nodded at me, onto the Limited Express to Wellington, hopped on the Interislander ferry (.303 locked in purser's safe), arrived in Picton and hitch hiked to Kaikoura, being picked up by a woman and her young child. No one objected or thought anything was amiss. Legally, you could still do all of that now, but how far would you get? Sigh.....................

A lot more recently, probably 1998, me and a couple of mates were driving up to Taihape from Waikanae. We stopped in Levin to buy some ammo from the sports store in the main st. Our rifles were just lying on the back seat, would have had the bolts in them but unloaded of course. Bought said ammo and walking back to the car heres 2 cops leaning on the bonnet. Asked us where we were going and we told them we were off hunting into the Kawekas. One of them reminded us to either put the rifles in gun bags, or at the very least throw a coat over them. We said "thanks mate", and were just about to head on our way. As we started the car one of them turned back and said through the window, "If ya get any spare venison you could drop it in at the station if ya like"
Need less to say none of it was spare:)