Thread: Colfo trust & confidence survey

Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

Exactly not all of us are on get a life book or have a tv as our friend. they have each lfaos contact details, they were pretty efficient at contacting me re the confiscation why cant they use the same method to keep us informed re new laws etc? I dont mind my tax $$ being spent on it

Originally Posted by blip

Exactly not all of us are on get a life book or have a tv as our friend. they have each lfaos contact details, they were pretty efficient at contacting me re the confiscation why cant they use the same method to keep us informed re new laws etc? I dont mind my tax $$ being spent on it

Unfortunately with a lot of legislation that gets passed into law various organisations take the view that it’s the individuals responsibility to keep up with current regulations. Police and IRD are prime examples. But you’re right, when they have your details in the system you should be notified of changes.

The FSA have a whole department dealing with Comms and passing on info to the public. Its come up many times in FCAF meeting that they need to spread their message wider. Stop putting info in shooting magazines about registering your guns or law changes, as thats preaching to the converted, and start putting info in things like the woman weekly, air NZ magazine, car magazines etc etc. Nothing happens though.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

I met Gwyn Thurlow NZDA CEO in November, he was guest speaker at my local branch meeting, we are very lucky to have him in that role, he is a very passionate hunter and being a lawyer is a huge bonus to, he has been working tirelessly keeping in close contact with Nicole McKee,and other politicians and has been working with Todd McLay for 3 years to develop the Hunting and Fishing portfolio that National are implementing, he also works closely with COLFO and was probably instrumental in getting Hugh Deveroux Mack onboard in the NZDA to help promote our sport so have a lot of faith in them.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

Originally Posted by hunt08

The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

Thats fine. But at least join an organisation because numbers and funds are important to them. NZDA are a member/sponsor of Colfo so through joining nzda you contribute to Colfo and get the benefit of nzda's broader hunting related advocacy and can be engaged with branch activities.

There has always been a sort of fith-column of anti nzda people. Being negative about them made you one of the cool guys. Perhaps somewhat warranted in the past - I was nearly run out of a branch for being a meat hunter. But being negative now is just being plain picky in the light of what the modern organisation achieves.

Originally Posted by hunt08

The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

I get where you're coming from. A lot of people may be nervous of making a submission but as long as you are concise with your statements, and maybe show a bit of passion without looking to be a nutcase, thats all that matters. It takes a lot of time to go through the process but we have to make noise to be heard. Individuals have to keep abrest of developments regarding anything they have an interest in, work or leisure related, and have their say. For me it's most things firearms/hunting related and anything to do with DOC Conservation Management Strategies.
Remember, the squeaky wheel gets attention. Thats how Forest & Bird, Gun Control NZ and the likes get traction. On a side note join these outfits, learn how they work, then you're in a better position to fight them as neccessary. That's probably what they do.
This got a bit long winded so time to stop.

Dealing with politicians, DoC, and the Police is all about building relationships and going into meetings with well thought out arguments for or against a change in legislation. There is negotiation and compromise, hopefully by both sides. Talk of ‘drawing a line in the sand’, ‘growing a pair’, ‘having no backbone’ will get you absolutely nowhere except being excluded from any future meetings. Negotiating with these organisations/bureaucrats is not something any old hunter/shooter can do and requires the right person(s). (Articulate, intelligent, well versed in the issues, and able to stay calm in meetings) The days of organisations like the National body of NZDA, COLFO, GAC, Tahr Foundation etc. being headed by volunteers is long gone and paid professionals are needed but this of course comes at a cost which many hunters baulk at. 3-years ago NZDA employed the organisations first paid CEO and the organisation has made huge leaps forward since then.

Originally Posted by hunt08

The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

And that is why the COLFO lawyers assemble the information for people to use to rewrite into their own submission, then send it to all their member organisations to circulate to their members.

Another organisation the NZCTA also sat back and did nothing for far too long, it looks to be getting a bit of a tune up at the agm, and the universal trench guys haven't been slow to point that out.

Thats unlikely to happen. The more folk kept uninformed the easier it is for you to break the Law , and thereby be deemed no longer Fit and Proper.

Its all part of a cynical game that we will all be the long-term losers in , no matter what colour government may be in office.

Pretty ironic how the police enforce the law but you cant walk up to one and ask what the law is. Ive had that on a couple of occasions now....

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

Originally Posted by Maca49

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

FSA are correct, AO's are not allowed to enter peoples gun details into the register, you can only ring up the call centre and talk to someone who knows absolutly nothing about guns at all.

Originally Posted by Maca49

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

sounds like a case for nicole to get her teeth into .Ive not registered yet but did get my lovely daughter to create a spreadsheet of details . simplicity in this day and age wouls suggest email em and voila theyve got all my details in one lovely wee tight package!oh woe is me ,imdrowning in my tears ,commonsense doesnt apply.

In terms of this colfo issue etc lets not forget opinions like arseholes feet mouths and armpits are universal -we all have em and sometimes they fucking stink!
colfo NZDA F&Gare all large organisations ,largely voluntary so the process of reaching consensus can at times be lengthly and may seem totally west of what in fact was sought .

add to that NZs state services and police HQs reticence to release control of the bastard child or make it user friendly yet another layer of cowshit on the steaming cowpat.

lastly over time IIRCImade 3spereate submissions oat various stages but never received any acknowledgement .respect it seems is an unknown quantity gentlemen.couple of days ago i was having a bit of a yarn with a rellie(20yrs in the blue uniform) Imentioned this LFAO thing and how it impacted him .giant eye roll said it all his words"why not leave bloody well alone" he also questioned the parentage of certain deskbound keyboard punching biro munching blue clad dollops of DNA.