Colfo trust & confidence survey

The results of this should be interesting to see
If it's in the wrong place please move.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QDJ32S5

done.
A fair few zeros from me there.
Highest i gave em was a three.

Done. Pretty much a no confidence vote from ne

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

Goog questions but my answers not so much. The issue that I had with answering is that I am very black or white when it comes to having confidence and I struggle to accept that there are degrees of confidence. I am either confident about something or not confident (one or the other) but can’t seem to find it in me to be partially confident.

Wow, that was quite depressing.

Rushy
They tell me the older u get the more u can see the grey areas ...
It ain't working for me. ;)

That is COLFO all over unfortunately. They work in degrees, concede points and Police walk all over them in the give an inch, take a mile scenario. COLFO will not draw a line in the sand and that is what puts so many Firearms Users off them.

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Originally Posted by Sharki

Rushy
They tell me the older u get the more u can see the grey areas ...
It ain't working for me. ;)

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I am told that there are fifty shades of grey but that just seems like a lot of fucking around to me.

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Originally Posted by Rushy

Goog questions but my answers not so much. The issue that I had with answering is that I am very black or white when it comes to having confidence and I struggle to accept that there are degrees of confidence. I am either confident about something or not confident (one or the other) but can’t seem to find it in me to be partially confident.

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Yup, those are simple "yes/no" questions. There is no space there for partially confident as you say. Having said that, my direct interactions with the administration types have all been great, but I have heard a lot of people having massive issues that just shouldn't have happened.

String of zeros from me.
Questions seemed very loaded though.
For instance, how else could I answer a question about whether police apply firearms law without bias. They’ve made the law abiding owners out to be questionable characters, while not clamping down on criminals with guns.
Only one honest answer I could give…

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Originally Posted by BSA

That is COLFO all over unfortunately. They work in degrees, concede points and Police walk all over them in the give an inch, take a mile scenario. COLFO will not draw a line in the sand and that is what puts so many Firearms Users off them.

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You've summed it up very well. Colfo is too "polite old chap" and get used as a door mat. You'd hope they'd grow a pair now we have slightly friendlier politicians.

Interesting questions.

I have found front line police staff, sworn and unsworn, to be okay, approachable and polite.
Not always as knowledgeable as one might expect, but competent.

I renewed my firearms license in 2023 and found the process okay - not great but okay.
It could or should have been easier and faster.

The interviewer/vetter was okay, mainly questioned my mental health.
Did a poor job of safe inspection.
Seemed lacking in knowledge or awareness of the requirements around firearms registration.

I have no confidence in the upper levels of the police hierarchy.
They seem to draw conclusions and create policy without any significant evidential proof.

As as for Mr Cahill, I have no confidence and no trust in any thing he says or does.

If Colfo had drawn a line or grown a pair, what would you have had them do?

I ask this because in negotiations you derive power through having strong alternatives away from the table. For the last 9 years there haven't seemed to have been any for Colfo - sit at the table and talk for small gains - or walk away from the table to nothing.

Things might change now.

Coppers only apply the shig laws Madd by shitty politicians
If this is politically post , dis not mean it
I'm sorry admin, but it's the truth

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Originally Posted by Tahr

If Colfo had drawn a line or grown a pair, what would you have had them do?

I ask this because in negotiations you derive power through having strong alternatives away from the table. For the last 9 years there haven't seemed to have been any for Colfo - sit at the table and talk for small gains - or walk away from the table to nothing.

Things might change now.

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Something else to consider, when the time comes regarding changes to the firearms act and COLFO ask for shooters to make submissions to police, no one bothers to do it. I think from memory the last time was a only few hundred out of 234K licenced firearms owners that made submissions, even after COLFO's lawyers had collected all the details together to make it simple for licenced firearms owners to submit. Its very difficult to "grow a pair" and stand up to police with the level of apathy and support displayed by shooters in NZ, but they keep on working for licenced firearms owners, because not to is defeat, and no one wants that do they.

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

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Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

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Why do you not have faith in the last one…..they have seriously up’d their game under new leadership and are doing some great advocacy and promotion

Another organisation the NZCTA also sat back and did nothing for far too long, it looks to be getting a bit of a tune up at the agm, and the universal trench guys haven't been slow to point that out.

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Originally Posted by omark

Why do you not have faith in the last one…..they have seriously up’d their game under new leadership and are doing some great advocacy and promotion

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Yes. I would back NZDA at the national level being the most organised and influential. But it might only last as long as te current CEO remains in the role. A good succession plan will be vital.

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Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

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....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

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Originally Posted by omark

Why do you not have faith in the last one…..they have seriously up’d their game under new leadership and are doing some great advocacy and promotion

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NZDA were notably absent regarding supporting firearms owners after Ch-Ch or taking a stand against the firearms reforms until quite late in the piece. One statement they did make was that they saw no reason for the possession of semi-auto’s for hunting. To me that put them in the same camp as fuckwits like the senior management of Hunting and Fishing and Dave Hughes from Swazi. NZDA only started making noise well after the horse had bolted. Maybe I’m just cynical but they’ve got to keep up their current efforts to earn any browny points from me. And I’m a member of the organisation.

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Originally Posted by woods223

NZDA were notably absent regarding supporting firearms owners after Ch-Ch or taking a stand against the firearms reforms until quite late in the piece. One statement they did make was that they saw no reason for the possession of semi-auto’s for hunting. To me that put them in the same camp as fuckwits like the senior management of Hunting and Fishing and Dave Hughes from Swazi. NZDA only started making noise well after the horse had bolted. Maybe I’m just cynical but they’ve got to keep up their current efforts to earn any browny points from me. And I’m a member of the organisation.

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You are quite correct that NZDA were absent, but they were not really affected as the majority of their members were bolt gun users. Without going into details on an open forum, there was a very good reason for their change of tac and through their CEO Gwyn they are very very supportive of LFO's now and do a very large amount of work behind the scenes in the ongoing fight against the legislation we have had imposed on us.

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Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

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Exactly not all of us are on get a life book or have a tv as our friend. they have each lfaos contact details, they were pretty efficient at contacting me re the confiscation why cant they use the same method to keep us informed re new laws etc? I dont mind my tax $$ being spent on it

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Originally Posted by blip

Exactly not all of us are on get a life book or have a tv as our friend. they have each lfaos contact details, they were pretty efficient at contacting me re the confiscation why cant they use the same method to keep us informed re new laws etc? I dont mind my tax $$ being spent on it

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Unfortunately with a lot of legislation that gets passed into law various organisations take the view that it’s the individuals responsibility to keep up with current regulations. Police and IRD are prime examples. But you’re right, when they have your details in the system you should be notified of changes.

Thats unlikely to happen. The more folk kept uninformed the easier it is for you to break the Law , and thereby be deemed no longer Fit and Proper.

Its all part of a cynical game that we will all be the long-term losers in , no matter what colour government may be in office.

Pretty ironic how the police enforce the law but you cant walk up to one and ask what the law is. Ive had that on a couple of occasions now....

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Originally Posted by Percy Jones

You are quite correct that NZDA were absent, but they were not really affected as the majority of their members were bolt gun users. Without going into details on an open forum, there was a very good reason for their change of tac and through their CEO Gwyn they are very very supportive of LFO's now and do a very large amount of work behind the scenes in the ongoing fight against the legislation we have had imposed on us.

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The reason NZDA were absent about the semi auto centrefire rifles is because it didn't affect those that were doing the speaking, there were a LOT of NZDA members that it did affect as they did own them.
This is still the case in NZDA where people actively promote/advocate for what interests them and ignore or actively ignore/bypass the things that don't interest them.

The FSA have a whole department dealing with Comms and passing on info to the public. Its come up many times in FCAF meeting that they need to spread their message wider. Stop putting info in shooting magazines about registering your guns or law changes, as thats preaching to the converted, and start putting info in things like the woman weekly, air NZ magazine, car magazines etc etc. Nothing happens though.

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Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 19Badger

The reason NZDA were absent about the semi auto centrefire rifles is because it didn't affect those that were doing the speaking, there were a LOT of NZDA members that it did affect as they did own them.
This is still the case in NZDA where people actively promote/advocate for what interests them and ignore or actively ignore/bypass the things that don't interest them.

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I don't think that you are giving the "today" NZDA enough credit. With any member driven organisation there will be a multitude of mixed messages coming from the branches through to the National office. Some of the messages will be on point and some of them totally subjective and bordering on crazy. You only need to attend a branch meeting to hear the quality of some of the debate to realise that at times the organisation needs to be protected from itself. The Executive and CEO ensure that this happens - making sense of the messages and sifting out the dominant themes - and advocating for members without wandering down a subjective path. I think they are doing an excellent job right across the board at the moment. But in saying that they certainly did need to improve.

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Originally Posted by Sharki

Rushy
They tell me the older u get the more u can see the grey areas ...
It ain't working for me. ;)

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As you get older you see through the crap

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

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FSA are correct, AO's are not allowed to enter peoples gun details into the register, you can only ring up the call centre and talk to someone who knows absolutly nothing about guns at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Heard of a guy the other day with quite a few firearms, some restricted, who listed all and gave to the AO to have put into the register. Licence renewal due was the trigger, had a call from the register, saying he had to register his firearms, explained he had provided a list to the AO, before due date of renewal, register person said he couldn’t do that, there were security concerns if done by AOs, (he questioned that)only options phone or computer, explained he was working and didn’t have time to sit on the phone and couldn’t do it on a computer. Got told if he didn’t his licence would be revoked, replied he would see them in court. Register guy was quite aggressive. He’s now tried to register a few online, as found out he can drip feed, he has a lot of firearms, through Real Me and his licence doesn’t come up, says he doesn’t have one.
Renewal date is passed now, has no contact from police and still has all his firearms.
Going to be interesting

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sounds like a case for nicole to get her teeth into .Ive not registered yet but did get my lovely daughter to create a spreadsheet of details . simplicity in this day and age wouls suggest email em and voila theyve got all my details in one lovely wee tight package!oh woe is me ,imdrowning in my tears ,commonsense doesnt apply.

In terms of this colfo issue etc lets not forget opinions like arseholes feet mouths and armpits are universal -we all have em and sometimes they fucking stink!
colfo NZDA F&Gare all large organisations ,largely voluntary so the process of reaching consensus can at times be lengthly and may seem totally west of what in fact was sought .

add to that NZs state services and police HQs reticence to release control of the bastard child or make it user friendly yet another layer of cowshit on the steaming cowpat.

lastly over time IIRCImade 3spereate submissions oat various stages but never received any acknowledgement .respect it seems is an unknown quantity gentlemen.couple of days ago i was having a bit of a yarn with a rellie(20yrs in the blue uniform) Imentioned this LFAO thing and how it impacted him .giant eye roll said it all his words"why not leave bloody well alone" he also questioned the parentage of certain deskbound keyboard punching biro munching blue clad dollops of DNA.

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Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

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I met Gwyn Thurlow NZDA CEO in November, he was guest speaker at my local branch meeting, we are very lucky to have him in that role, he is a very passionate hunter and being a lawyer is a huge bonus to, he has been working tirelessly keeping in close contact with Nicole McKee,and other politicians and has been working with Todd McLay for 3 years to develop the Hunting and Fishing portfolio that National are implementing, he also works closely with COLFO and was probably instrumental in getting Hugh Deveroux Mack onboard in the NZDA to help promote our sport so have a lot of faith in them.

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Originally Posted by woods223

NZDA were notably absent regarding supporting firearms owners after Ch-Ch or taking a stand against the firearms reforms until quite late in the piece. One statement they did make was that they saw no reason for the possession of semi-auto’s for hunting.

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Doesn't sound like NZDA at all, even under previous management. Can you provide a link/source for that statement?

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Originally Posted by Oscar

Doesn't sound like NZDA at all, even under previous management. Can you provide a link/source for that statement?

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Are you serious? That shit-feat was over four years ago, you think I waste my time keeping articles with statements made by drop-kicks that long. Ffs.

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Originally Posted by woods223

Are you serious? That shit-feat was over four years ago, you think I waste my time keeping articles with statements made by drop-kicks that long. Ffs.

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There seems to be no record of it on the internet either though. As you say, it was a while back - any chance you might be thinking of another organisation like Fish and Game? Or Game Animal Council?

Whatever the case, thankfully NZDA have come a long way in the last 4 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nickoli

....I'd suggest awareness may be an issue.
There are a large number of people who are completely oblivious to changes passing through the legislative process (not just firearms related) - "if I'm not doing anything against the law*, why should I bother.....?"
There are plenty of folks in the above camp.
It's all very well to point out that FAL should be aware, but where do they find this information if not plugged into a forum or some other source?

(* = Law as "I/they" understand it - remember it can change based on a whim....)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by woods223

As Percy Jones said. Fuckall LFAO's made/make submissions on matters that may affect them. A fair percentage have no idea what's going on. But a shit load do and are too fecking lazy to get of their arse and make submissions, quite happy to bleat and moan about things when it's too late though. We need to support the likes of COLFO, SSANZ and NZDA, though I have little faith in the last one. Rant over.

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The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

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Originally Posted by Oscar

There seems to be no record of it on the internet either though. As you say, it was a while back - any chance you might be thinking of another organisation like Fish and Game? Or Game Animal Council?

Whatever the case, thankfully NZDA have come a long way in the last 4 years.

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No.I'm not sure if it was a "stuff" article I read it, maybe some other mainstream news outfit. Fish and Game were only worried about looking after gamebird hunters and their semi's, which I am and use. GAC were pretty much ghosts over most of that period although they did start making noise before NZDA. To be clear, I don't have a particular axe to grind with any organisation. It just pissed me off that some of them didn't exibit any backbone when it came to standing up for law-abiding firearms owners in general.

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Originally Posted by hunt08

The other big problem is alot off hunters are very practical people and the thought off just trying to do a submission is a very scary concept and I fall into that category and I wouldn't even know where to start to do one so like me most people I put in the two hard basket

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Thats fine. But at least join an organisation because numbers and funds are important to them. NZDA are a member/sponsor of Colfo so through joining nzda you contribute to Colfo and get the benefit of nzda's broader hunting related advocacy and can be engaged with branch activities.

There has always been a sort of fith-column of anti nzda people. Being negative about them made you one of the cool guys. Perhaps somewhat warranted in the past - I was nearly run out of a branch for being a meat hunter. But being negative now is just being plain picky in the light of what the modern organisation achieves.