Thread: Cops have two Glocks stolen in Gore.

Originally Posted by Ground Control

I don’t really follow the news so Im a little out of touch , have the two Glock’s been recovered ?

Just one.

Before 2015 there were court rulings that meant that Police could not use the fact that a person was a member or associate of a criminal gang as a reason to deny a FAL.

In 2015 a judge finally had the sense to over rule that, then the Police went through and revoked en mass all of the know gang members FALs.

Do you really think that Police would want to give a FAL to anybody remotely associated with a gang?!

The anti police sector of the gun lobby are often intellectually dishonest when it comes to these facts.

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Ok, now youre just making excuses to try and justify incompetency. It worked both ways, NZ police didnt exactly go out of their way to do any checks either, they could have simply asked OZ why they were sent home as a background check during the vetting process. Its not rocket science. Whats happened to common sense... they were sent home (alarm bells should have been ringing), you dont get deported for nothing.

More like stone walling and their unwillingness to share information which would better assist!

You don't think the NZ police have tried to get the relevant information from Australia when people were starting to be sent back to NZ a few years ago! They were being sent back with nothing forwarded through to the NZ authorities on what or why that person was being deported for. If they were being sent back for criminal offending in Australia there was no information as to their criminal history accompanying them, nothing being forwarded... nudda nothing!

Try dealing with the 5 different states and the Federal Police in Australia seeking the relevant information who would stone wall you and not release the information your seeking.

Just remember that not everyone was being deported back to NZ because of criminal convictions, quite a few were being sent back because they failed "the good character test" which I wish NZ would also adopt so we could deport a few undesirables!

Over time the sharing of information has become very fluid which helps assist in why that person is being sent back, their whole criminal history as only a few deportees were only born in NZ but raised entirely in Australia so when they come back they have no family, friends, no support networks in place and feel very disgruntled at basically being deported into a country they don't want to be apart of so guess what direction they start heading towards!

Originally Posted by Mauser308

You a far far too optimistic.

It's the people that are on the fringes of the criminal fraternity that don't show as being involved at an initial screening that are the concern. You can say they will get picked up by Police processes eventually but it might take many years for it to happen. A registry won't stop guns getting transferred to gangs or gangs from direct importing their own and bypassing the local supply altogether. Once again, barking at thunder too little too late. Plus going on the attack against licensed owners who used to be very supportive to police but now after being shafted, who have the opinion of why should they bother helping when they see something questionable? Too be fair, why would they - expect people to go out of their way after they've been sh*t on from a great height hahahahaha...

Your quite right. Licenses are issued for 10 years and ALOT of things can happen during that 10 year time frame with mental illness to a person, financial hardship, getting addicted to drugs and clocking up an unpaid debt where that individual starts buying guns on behalf of criminals/gangs to pay off that debt.

I hear what you say about not wanting to help police or pointing out something isn't right with say "Johnny" where you think they might be selling guns to the gangs but that decision of whether to say something or not reflects on us as individuals first and fore most of where our morals lay and on our conscience

Secondly, it reflects on ALL firearm users as a whole as its something we need to protect and NOT GIVE ANYONE (Cahill, Nash, Jacinda) the ammunition to use offences committed by license owners as a reason to invoke new laws!

Perhaps at times I am too optimistic... here's a story for you.

Met a fella who was at a party and watched one of his drunk mates get behind the wheel and drive off where he and others had the opportunity to do something about it and prevent him from driving off but he thought... not my problem and the good old she'll be right attitude!

Drunk guy drives off where he had a head on with another car, drunk guy survived… not a scratch however the other driver didn't survive!

Turns out the deceased was the fella at the party's sister!

No guesses what the guy at the party wished he'd done! Tragic all round!

Originally Posted by Savage1

Before 2015 there were court rulings that meant that Police could not use the fact that a person was a member or associate of a criminal gang as a reason to deny a FAL.

In 2015 a judge finally had the sense to over rule that, then the Police went through and revoked en mass all of the know gang members FALs.

Do you really think that Police would want to give a FAL to anybody remotely associated with a gang?!

The anti police sector of the gun lobby are often intellectually dishonest when it comes to these facts.

I didn't know that that was the case and it is good to know that the judge has changed a stupid precedent

I don't think that there was much of a gun lobby before but I do believe that there is one forming now..

Originally Posted by Seventenths

etc etc

...everybody apparently knows it’s been happening then please feel free to tell me the names of any patches gang members or prospects of any criminal gang who have their gun licenses?

Even PM me that information!

So, regardless of the above ducking and diving you stand by the

Nope... not one "gang member" in the country has a license!

Anyone identified as associating or going down that path soon has their license revoked.

Oh wait - you didn't address that at all.

Also, why do you want me to do your employer's research for you? We pay taxes for these* people to do that

* https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/...ligence-centre

Give them a ring on Monday. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Before 2015 there were court rulings that meant that Police could not use the fact that a person was a member or associate of a criminal gang as a reason to deny a FAL.

In 2015 a judge finally had the sense to over rule that, then the Police went through and revoked en mass all of the know gang members FALs.

Do you really think that Police would want to give a FAL to anybody remotely associated with a gang?!

The anti police sector of the gun lobby are often intellectually dishonest when it comes to these facts.

Yes, the judge finally overruled it, and yet we know from Grandmaster Cahill and Lecturer Nash and others that gang members still have FALs.

Glad you worry about intellectual dishonesty, there's a lot of it about.

"Do you really think that Police would want to give a FAL to anybody remotely associated with a gang?" = a diesel-soaked strawman in a barn owned by a pyromaniac. No one sensible thinks that. No one sensible thinks police want Glocks stolen or 4 prisoners to escape in as many days from police custody, and yet - all that happens.

BTW I for one do not consider myself part of any gun lobby. I lobby for freedom; amongst others, the freedom not to be criminalized by political whim and grandstanding; the freedom not to have some police rewrite the laws of the land (on the back of an atrocity facilitated by their colleagues - but absolutely and only committed by an evil sod who is primarily responsible!); the freedom not to be threatened by the same spokespeople who are seriously timid when it comes to confronting people who admitted to illegalities = https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...sque-shooting;; the freedom to expect and exchange truth-telling with and protection by, not accusations and persecution from, police. If those are freedoms you believe in then we have a huge amount of common ground.

Originally Posted by sightpicture

So, regardless of the above ducking and diving you stand by the

Nope... not one "gang member" in the country has a license!

Anyone identified as associating or going down that path soon has their license revoked.

Oh wait - you didn't address that at all.

Also, why do you want me to do your employer's research for you? We pay taxes for these* people to do that

* https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/...ligence-centre

Give them a ring on Monday. Good luck.

All I’ve done is called you out on your comment asking for the names of known gang members who you claim have gun licenses... mmmmkay!

If you believe there are patched gang members in the country with current firearms licenses then... well... I guess that’s being optimistic!

the sad part guys is WE KNOW there are patched gang members out there with firearms,they have said so themselves.....they dont give a flying faaark obout the law so they wouldnt get a FAL even if they could..... someone lower down the gang ranks will steal, or purchase what they want off the black market....its not like they dont have enough dirty money to purchase what ever they want.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the sad part guys is WE KNOW there are patched gang members out there with firearms,they have said so themselves.....they dont give a flying faaark obout the law so they wouldnt get a FAL even if they could..... someone lower down the gang ranks will steal, or purchase what they want off the black market....its not like they dont have enough dirty money to purchase what ever they want.

The gang members use their ‘molls’ who have a clean record to get their firearms licence - then ferry them around town to buy guns from various gun shops and off T/M.

I know of one cop who spotted one moll leaving a gang pad and recognised her from when she came into the cop shop with her licence application. He checked up and she had only just received the licence. - which was promptly revoked and the pad ‘visited’

Originally Posted by Seventenths

All I’ve done is called you out on your comment asking for the names of known gang members who you claim have gun licenses... mmmmkay!

If you believe there are patched gang members in the country with current firearms licenses then... well... I guess that’s being optimistic!

Not a belief - it’s what your own police hierarchy are saying. But, by all means, prove them wrong.

@Savage1 and @Seventenths, just going on what Mike M told me in person, had a ten minute chat after a presentation he gave some time last year. Those were the reasons HE gave for NZP allowing associates licenses. You have to remember it was a hall full of LAFOs asking the questions, a lot to do with with being put through more and more hoops etc, while the crims skate through. Nothings changed since then though. The law abiding are on the receiving end, while gangs seem to operate with impunity in large areas around the country. I left that hall quite disliking Mike M, having entered with no preconceived attitude to the guy. He is a snake, another lying politician, but in a blue uniform.

The main associate I mentioned is well known to police, but this was in fact prior to 2015, so I am glad he has most likely had his license yanked. He was a fucking horrible prick. I do not doubt he still has firearms, but he will be less smug about it.

The anti police sector of the gun lobby are often intellectually dishonest when it comes to these facts.

Well, yes and no, it goes both ways. The vast vast majority of LAFOs are not anti police in the slightest, but some are sick to death of being demonised in the media by senior police as somehow being a problem, dangerous etc, which we certainly are not. This attitude has been present since well before March, and has been intensified afterwards. Turn on the radio, hear some asshat from PNHQ talking about "getting evil guns off the streets", when they aren't on the streets at all, they are locked up safe n sound by everyone I know personally - it's ridiculous thing to say in an official capacity. But the boot is being put in with alacrity, at every opportunity. This interspersed with that farce at Palmy nick, and the lost glocks etc (that was an operational thing, Palmy was not), and it's not surprising there is some shit talk by some vocal elements. The fact of the matter is people are quickly losing faith and confidence in the NZ Police, and it is not good for NZ at all.

Originally Posted by sightpicture

Not a belief - it’s what your own police hierarchy are saying. But, by all means, prove them wrong.

The onus isn’t on me to prove anything or to go and consult anyone over your comment.

I’ve simply asked for you to backup your comment. It’s really simple... either you can or you can’t?

Typically you would prove a point by cutting & pasting from an article or other online document to support your claim as you like to do your research but I note you haven’t done anything on this occasion.

Originally Posted by Tommy

@Savage1 and @Seventenths, just going on what Mike M told me in person, had a ten minute chat after a presentation he gave some time last year. Those were the reasons HE gave for NZP allowing associates licenses. You have to remember it was a hall full of LAFOs asking the questions, a lot to do with with being put through more and more hoops etc, while the crims skate through. Nothings changed since then though. The law abiding are on the receiving end, while gangs seem to operate with impunity in large areas around the country. I left that hall quite disliking Mike M, having entered with no preconceived attitude to the guy. He is a snake, another lying politician, but in a blue uniform.

I can completely relate to your view of the upper police hierarchy and I do understand where your coming from where people have the view gangs operate with complete impunity but alas there are always people in the background working on operations to net as many of those fuckers in one go and take away all their assets but unlike the gangs the police have laws to adhere to where evidence has to be obtained.

If the government were serious about "gun violence" then when the first tranche of new laws were introduced this year National asked for a "Firearms Prohibition" law to be introduced but Labour and the Greens weren't going to allow it... have to wonder why as it's such a useful tool and targets the right people... not firearm owners!

https://www.gotocourt.com.au/crimina...bition-orders/

For the second tranche of laws Labour proposed, National asked for the "Firearms Prohibition" to be introduced and again they were told... lets put it on the table and discuss it later this year which is basically saying... yeah, nah, not interested, not gonna happen!!!

Anyway... I for one would love to see the "Firearms Prohibition" introduced as I could see many police having a field day with those fuckers who got issued one!

interesting read and it SEEMS to pull no punches about both the good and bad of how it works over the ditch....most common items found during search...included drugs,might be why the green party and thier pals dont want it to go into force here.
put some more ridged safeguards in place...to prevent copper with grudge being a miserable prick and really stuffing up someones life...eg guy who has shacked up with ex Mrs...and it COULD be a good thing....
Maybe make it only issueable with a judges approval so has similar safeguards as a warrent????