Thread: Could we do more

I had the bare minimum security when I first got my FAL (a lock on a cupboard, didn't have a rifle there as my flat mates refuted it).

When I got my first rifle, I had a gun rack. Easy to take with me when moving flats but still didn't let me sleep well at night.

Saved up and got a safe. Seriously don't understand why anyone who owned a home wouldn't get one. I think the minimum security is a joke and I was very uncomfortable storing firearms that way.

I'd like to see a much more secure minimum standard brought in, but understand the challenges of administration of enforcement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Dougie

I think the minimum security is a joke and I was very uncomfortable storing firearms that way.

I talked to an AO about that once who said that its mostly about being fit for purpose - the minimum standard is not intended for long-term permanent storage, its more for the sort of person who occasionally has a borrowed firearm to lock up for a night, or at a bach so you can lock up your rifle when you're there on holiday. Seemed fair enough to me.

Let's go back to what was suggested, I think, in the 70s by the polies and put them all in armouries and you can book em out and put em back when you have finished. That's the real control they would like!

So I bought a rifle from a gun shop yesterday, everything recorded, sold it today at a profit to a bonifide person, I do not keep records, what's the point?

Originally Posted by Maca49

So I bought a rifle from a gun shop yesterday, everything recorded, sold it today at a profit to a bonifide person, I do not keep records, what's the point?

The fact is at this point there is no point, and if you logically think about it that unless everyone is willing to inform the police of the firearms you own, then there will be no point. Criminals will always obtain guns, either by thefts or illegal imports, but two wrongs don,t make a right.
As gun owners we need to set the agenda, not try closing the door after the horse has bolted.
If we offered some of the following perhaps we could offset further restrictions
1. Better security, safes as a minimum standard
2. Inform police who you sell a firearm to, the rubbish spoken about data base security is irrelevant, everyone on this site is easily traceable as is anyone who visits a hunting via there number plate.
OK some people may say give them an inch and they will take a mile, but if they really want that mile they will take it anyway, as any Aussie .

Taff the law was changed, I think the current system is fine,maybe small tweaks but not wholesale changes. Security is something change in society has brought us to. But as said here, concentrate on the law breakers, give the some consequences to face. I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all, and extremely tough sentences for firearm offences.

Originally Posted by Maca49

Taff the law was changed, I think the current system is fine,maybe small tweaks but not wholesale changes. Security is something change in society has brought us to. But as said here, concentrate on the law breakers, give the some consequences to face. I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all, and extremely tough sentences for firearm offences.

I would legalise every Drug.Drug "control" just puts money in big Governments pockets.We have already established that if criminals want guns then they can get them,thats the same reason that a little Country at the bottom of the world has a drug problem.Supply and demand.

I think tighter security in conjunction with harder penalties for improper storage,harder penalties still for illegal firearms possession.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all.

You'd be on your own with that one mate.

Originally Posted by 223nut

A safe screwed to the floor. Need tools / 10+mins to remove it. Something made from thick enough steel that you can't kick it open

The problem is you need to write a specification which isn't open to interpretation and quite clearly defines the performance expected.

Originally Posted by Taff

There is a standard already in the UK it's not difficult for them to copy it, safes are not expensive , the cost of a middle priced scope. Punishment for gun crimes and drugs / theft needs to be stronger, but that's not going to happen , if anything it's getting lighter.

Sorry, but the UK can keep it's laws in the UK thanks.

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

The problem is you need to write a specification which isn't open to interpretation and quite clearly defines the performance expected.

The difficulty with this would be one off custom safes/strongrooms. To properly test performance they would be destroyed. I think the rules as they are with an engineers report is actually quite good.

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

Sorry, but the UK can keep it's laws in the UK thanks.

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

Originally Posted by Taff

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

The UK has some pretty shit gun laws we could do without.

Where have I mentioned gun laws, I know the standard of education is low in most country's but I assumed most people on here could read. Perhaps we need a BS standard for education.

Originally Posted by Taff

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

Yeah mate. I have a problem with people suggesting that any part of UK firearms legislation is an improvement on our laws and policing.

Here's a guide I found on storage of firearms in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ty_leaflet.pdf

Published in 2005, so maybe abit out of date.

From what I can see, it makes no mention to actual standards, only recommendations, and does not seem to be any different from New Zealand's "recommendations".

It is recommended that a cabinet should have the
following featur
es:
• It should be made from sheet steel at least 14 swg
(standard wire gauge) (2 mm) thick. All seams
should be continuously welded, or the cabinet
body formed by bend construction.

Yeah mate 2mm....that's about what most gun "safes" here are.

Lock mechanisms should be on the inside of the
cabinet. The lock should contain at least 5 levers
to BS 3621 standard or equivalent. Alternatively,
good quality hardened padlocks and staples
should be fitted to the cabinet.

Lots of the word "should" in there. Which says to me it's not actually a specification. Just a recommendation, much like how the arms code is just a guide, but not the actual law.

The most glaring difference between New Zealand security requirements is that they recommend "gun clamps" or wall racks as we would probably call them. A method of storage which is only considered moderately acceptable here.

Gun clamps
For one firearm, an alternative option to a cabinet
may be a gun clamp. It should:
• be made out of steel that is at least 14 swg
(2mm) thick;
• have seam-welded joints, or be formed by bend
construction; and
• have a lock that meets BS 3621 standard or
equivalent. Alternatively a good quality hardened
padlock should be fitted.

Lots of use of the word should. Good stuff.

Finally, it says that steel cables are also a recommended way.

Steel cables
In certain circumstances a high tensile steel cable
secured with a hardened padlock may be an
appropriate security method.

In summary - the UK appears to have the same ambiguity of storage and security standards as New Zealand. And appears not to be a suitable model for us to base our security requirements on.

The end.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs

And eliminate most of the alcohol consuming, tax paying populace? No thanks.

Originally Posted by Ryan

And eliminate most of the alcohol consuming, tax paying populace? No thanks.

Dont be silly, Alcohol is not a drug! I can drink a little and not be off my head, P tends to send me spinning, Dope numbs my brain makes me sleepy gives bad breathe and makes me paranoid!! Havent tried anything else